Traveler agitated before boarding jet

mkpdavies · 10-12-2005, 01:40 PM

I agree, another reason not to shoot, but you know what it's like in the States. You just don't screw around period at airports.

IF the guy had issues, csteam is right, his missus should have alerted the airport. Personaly I find it hard to believe that she didn't, but I don't know.

I'm more concerned that they lied. Lies usualy cover something, just like happened here.

saabvolvo · 10-12-2005, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.A.Ware

But why shot someone who is leaving the plane, he was not a threat the other passengers.

You mean the terminal was empty? He could have been a threat to any number of people, the guards did the right thing.

I used to travel monthly between the UAE and Sanaa on Yemenia, and it was always a comfort to have a couple of men in suits three sizes too large with a bulge in their breast pockets on the aircraft.

If the shot mans wife had mentioned he was mentally disturbed and had refused to take his medicine nobody would have let him on the aircraft. Before people yell lies they should wait for a formal investigation.

mkpdavies · 11-12-2005, 08:20 AM

Yes the truth always comes out with the formal investigation. :?

Christina · 11-12-2005, 08:38 AM

Matt,

Why do you assume that because one passenger said he didn't hear the word 'bomb' that the people who shot him are lying?

It is well known that eye-witness accounts of events are very contradictory, and if eveyone says the same thing, that is usually an indication that collusion is involved.

Remember the reports from eye-witnesses about the Brazilian who was shot? I remember accounts of wires seen under his padded jacket, etc.

Today, we've been told by eye-witnesses that they saw a plane crash INTO phpbb_the oil depot. Now, we're being told there was no plane.

Why is this?

There's more to perception than what we see and hear, our minds do play tricks on us when under stress.

Derren Brown shows how we can be fooled by our senses on his shows.

Just because one passenger didn't hear the word 'bomb' does not mean that the poor guy did not say it.

mkpdavies · 11-12-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Why do you assume that because one passenger said he didn't hear the word 'bomb' that the people who shot him are lying?

Bit twitchy at the moment. So many lies recently, I find it hard to believe anything I hear now.

Quote:

Today, we've been told by eye-witnesses that they saw a plane crash INTO phpbb_the oil depot. Now, we're being told there was no plane.

Why is this?

Beacause it is near an airport. I can understand that.

Quote:

Just because one passenger didn't hear the word 'bomb' does not mean that the poor guy did not say it.

True. I will await more info, but at the moment I'm not confident of the official position.

Christina · 11-12-2005, 09:10 AM

I can understand your suspicions, and you may turn out to be right, after all I stated how well known it is for accounts with no contradictions to be suspect because it does imply collusion in some cases.

As far as C-Steam's point is concerned about his wife, I think it too harsh to blame her because Bipolar can be a very difficult thing for loved ones to handle. How can a wife stop her husband getting on a plane? How can she make him take his medication?

If he refused to take his meds, then he has diminished responsibilty because Bipolar cannot be cured, but it can be managed and Bipolar sufferers are responsible to manage their illness.

C_steam · 11-12-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

As far as C-Steam's point is concerned about his wife, I think it too harsh to blame her because Bipolar can be a very difficult thing for loved ones to handle. How can a wife stop her husband getting on a plane? How can she make him take his medication?

If a wife is with her husband who is ill, she has to take some kind of responsibility for him EVEN if that responsibility is only her having a chat with the check in staff.

As usual, when something goes wrong it would appear the first excuse is always 'it wasn't my responsibility.......'

Christina · 11-12-2005, 09:52 AM

If the man had Bipolar and had come off his meds for no good reason, it was his responsibilty. In my experience of life, most men are bigger than their wives and a wife couldn't stop her husband going to an airport.

Perhaps you think that a phone call to some service would solve it? Not so. The authorities will not restrain a person with mental illness unless they are a clear danger to themselves or others.

No one will stop a person with Bipolar going to an airport to catch a plane.

A wife is not an expertly trained mental health nurse or social worker.

Furthermore, Bipolar is unpredictable. He may have been okay until a certain point, it may have been the atmosphere in the airport which triggered an episode. We know that his wife desperately tried to explain he was ill at that point.

People with Bipolar are not always ill with it. The condition is always there, but a high or low is episodic. Sir Spike Milligan had Bipolar, the worst version of it, so did Ernest Hemingway, Virginia Woolfe and Lord Byron. A person with Bipolar isn't constantly in a state of illness.

What experience have you had dealing with a person who is starting to suffer a Bipolar episode?

C_steam · 11-12-2005, 09:53 AM

Quote:

If a wife is with her husband who is ill, she has to take some kind of responsibility for him EVEN if that responsibility is only her having a chat with the check in staff.

whose talking about stopping him get to the airport? IMHO that is where the check-ins normally are.

Your way just seems to make a case that the wife was weak, could take no responsibility for her husband and didn't care a jot about the potential impact of her husband on other travellers. I don't really think thats what you mean to say.

Christina · 11-12-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Your way just seems to make a case that the wife was weak, could take no responsibility for her husband and didn't care a jot about the potential impact of her husband on other travellers. I don't really think thats what you mean to say.

Anyone is weak when faced with a man or woman suffering a Bipolar episode where they are becoming high and agitated. It is like dealing with someone who has been spiked with speed.

10-12-2005, 01:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,837 Party: Libertarian Party	I agree, another reason not to shoot, but you know what it's like in the States. You just don't screw around period at airports. IF the guy had issues, csteam is right, his missus should have alerted the airport. Personaly I find it hard to believe that she didn't, but I don't know. I'm more concerned that they lied. Lies usualy cover something, just like happened here. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

11-12-2005, 08:20 AM	#13 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,837 Party: Libertarian Party	Yes the truth always comes out with the formal investigation. :? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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11-12-2005, 08:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	Matt, Why do you assume that because one passenger said he didn't hear the word 'bomb' that the people who shot him are lying? It is well known that eye-witness accounts of events are very contradictory, and if eveyone says the same thing, that is usually an indication that collusion is involved. Remember the reports from eye-witnesses about the Brazilian who was shot? I remember accounts of wires seen under his padded jacket, etc. Today, we've been told by eye-witnesses that they saw a plane crash INTO phpbb_the oil depot. Now, we're being told there was no plane. Why is this? There's more to perception than what we see and hear, our minds do play tricks on us when under stress. Derren Brown shows how we can be fooled by our senses on his shows. Just because one passenger didn't hear the word 'bomb' does not mean that the poor guy did not say it.

11-12-2005, 09:10 AM	#16 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	I can understand your suspicions, and you may turn out to be right, after all I stated how well known it is for accounts with no contradictions to be suspect because it does imply collusion in some cases. As far as C-Steam's point is concerned about his wife, I think it too harsh to blame her because Bipolar can be a very difficult thing for loved ones to handle. How can a wife stop her husband getting on a plane? How can she make him take his medication? If he refused to take his meds, then he has diminished responsibilty because Bipolar cannot be cured, but it can be managed and Bipolar sufferers are responsible to manage their illness.

11-12-2005, 09:52 AM	#18 (permalink)
Christina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eccleston, St Helens Posts: 1,529	If the man had Bipolar and had come off his meds for no good reason, it was his responsibilty. In my experience of life, most men are bigger than their wives and a wife couldn't stop her husband going to an airport. Perhaps you think that a phone call to some service would solve it? Not so. The authorities will not restrain a person with mental illness unless they are a clear danger to themselves or others. No one will stop a person with Bipolar going to an airport to catch a plane. A wife is not an expertly trained mental health nurse or social worker. Furthermore, Bipolar is unpredictable. He may have been okay until a certain point, it may have been the atmosphere in the airport which triggered an episode. We know that his wife desperately tried to explain he was ill at that point. People with Bipolar are not always ill with it. The condition is always there, but a high or low is episodic. Sir Spike Milligan had Bipolar, the worst version of it, so did Ernest Hemingway, Virginia Woolfe and Lord Byron. A person with Bipolar isn't constantly in a state of illness. What experience have you had dealing with a person who is starting to suffer a Bipolar episode?