Another former Blair aide speaks out over going to war

mkpdavies · 24-11-2005, 01:47 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...24/ixhome.html

Quote:

A second member of Tony Blair's foreign policy inner circle has broken ranks to call the Prime Minister's Iraq war alliance with President George W Bush a strategic blunder, with "damaging" consequences for Britain.

Sir Stephen Wall, the Prime Minister's former top adviser on Europe and a former ambassador to the European Union, worked at the heart of Downing Street before and during the US-led invasion of Iraq.

How brave of all these former sycophants to come out now, after the event and say something.

Maybe I would have more respect for them, if they had said something at the time.

Still, proves what an **** Bliar was, ignoring all the advices and evidence, so that he could kiss up to Bush and try for a power grab.

Angryjohn · 24-11-2005, 10:57 AM

I think going to war was the right thing to do. We just did it for the wrong reasons.

If we as a nation have the ability to take down a dictator then I say go for it.

Captain Apathy · 24-11-2005, 11:01 AM

i dont mind going to war, what i protest is lack of TV coverage of all the exciting bits !!!

i think we whent in with the wrong reasons and thats part and parcle why its so hard to get back out again..

there is no correct answer to the present situation. as pulling out fully or partialy or not at all all have disadvantages to different parts of the local political climate at the moment.

Angryjohn · 24-11-2005, 11:59 AM

i think we whent in with the wrong reasons and thats part and parcle why its so hard to get back out again..

there is no correct answer to the present situation. as pulling out fully or partialy or not at all all have disadvantages to different parts of the local political climate at the moment.

I agree. The political campaign to go in was not done well. While the actual fighting seemed to go ok (from what us civvies know) the peace didn't seem to be planned and we are reaping the rewards. I think we should prepare a withdrawel now and then stick to it. A planned retreat is surely far better than a hurried one or a long term commitment similar to Vietnam.

I could be persuaded differently by someone with more knowledge though.

Angryjohn · 24-11-2005, 12:09 PM

I quote from the US Blog - Progressive Review.

"As a Marine officer quoted by James Fallows in
the current Atlantic Monthly puts it, "We can lose in Iraq
and destroy our Army, or we can just lose."

And there's a good case to be made that our departure will
actually improve matters. As Mr. Murtha pointed out in his
speech, the insurgency derives much of its support from the
perception that it's resisting a foreign occupier. Once
we're gone, the odds are that Iraqis, who don't have a
tradition of religious extremism, will turn on fanatical
foreigners like Zarqawi.

The only way to justify staying in Iraq is to make the case
that stretching the U.S. army to its breaking point will
buy time for something good to happen. I don't think you
can make that case convincingly. So Mr. Murtha is right:
it's time to leave. "

There is truth that applies to us too I think

Captain Apathy · 24-11-2005, 05:21 PM

Given time things always sort them selves out.

I think the lesson of what happened to Saddam may and i hope persuade others to not form the same type of goverment.

we should let the counrty vote on if the uk go, if the us go , or if both go,, and other options.

then abide by the vote.

that way we are not retreating we are obaying they newly founded elected wim of the peopel, and it will be a show of power to the power of democracy, guns and violance didnt make the allied forces go, but democratic vote did, and i think if done right they could then feel at last thye have a destiny and how democracy can benifit them... maybe they will vote to no longer be democratic,, but thats for them to decide and not us.

Angryjohn · 24-11-2005, 05:34 PM

I like that idea Captain. I agree.

mkpdavies · 24-11-2005, 05:46 PM

I also like the idea of putting it to the Iraqi people. They should be the ones who now decides how this mess will be cleared up.

Good thinking.

UKIP MAN · 24-11-2005, 08:09 PM

the thing is it was the biggest load of bollcks that has happened to this country and the person that committed it will walk away without anything done to him and he will also have a pension to go with it.

he should be shot......

Hartlepool · 24-11-2005, 08:33 PM

HE SHOULD BE PUT ON TRIAL FOR IT ALL. SO SHOULD A FEW MORE OF HIS HENCHMEN. DRAW UP A LIST OF THEM ALL...... :x

24-11-2005, 11:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Captain Apathy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Somerset Posts: 520	i dont mind going to war, what i protest is lack of TV coverage of all the exciting bits !!! i think we whent in with the wrong reasons and thats part and parcle why its so hard to get back out again.. there is no correct answer to the present situation. as pulling out fully or partialy or not at all all have disadvantages to different parts of the local political climate at the moment. __________________ www.insanefaith.com

24-11-2005, 05:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Captain Apathy Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: North Somerset Posts: 520	Given time things always sort them selves out. I think the lesson of what happened to Saddam may and i hope persuade others to not form the same type of goverment. we should let the counrty vote on if the uk go, if the us go , or if both go,, and other options. then abide by the vote. that way we are not retreating we are obaying they newly founded elected wim of the peopel, and it will be a show of power to the power of democracy, guns and violance didnt make the allied forces go, but democratic vote did, and i think if done right they could then feel at last thye have a destiny and how democracy can benifit them... maybe they will vote to no longer be democratic,, but thats for them to decide and not us. __________________ www.insanefaith.com

24-11-2005, 05:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,832 Party: Libertarian Party	I also like the idea of putting it to the Iraqi people. They should be the ones who now decides how this mess will be cleared up. Good thinking. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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24-11-2005, 10:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
Angryjohn Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 309	I think going to war was the right thing to do. We just did it for the wrong reasons. If we as a nation have the ability to take down a dictator then I say go for it.

24-11-2005, 11:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Angryjohn Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 309	i think we whent in with the wrong reasons and thats part and parcle why its so hard to get back out again.. there is no correct answer to the present situation. as pulling out fully or partialy or not at all all have disadvantages to different parts of the local political climate at the moment. I agree. The political campaign to go in was not done well. While the actual fighting seemed to go ok (from what us civvies know) the peace didn't seem to be planned and we are reaping the rewards. I think we should prepare a withdrawel now and then stick to it. A planned retreat is surely far better than a hurried one or a long term commitment similar to Vietnam. I could be persuaded differently by someone with more knowledge though.

24-11-2005, 12:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Angryjohn Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 309	I quote from the US Blog - Progressive Review. "As a Marine officer quoted by James Fallows in the current Atlantic Monthly puts it, "We can lose in Iraq and destroy our Army, or we can just lose." And there's a good case to be made that our departure will actually improve matters. As Mr. Murtha pointed out in his speech, the insurgency derives much of its support from the perception that it's resisting a foreign occupier. Once we're gone, the odds are that Iraqis, who don't have a tradition of religious extremism, will turn on fanatical foreigners like Zarqawi. The only way to justify staying in Iraq is to make the case that stretching the U.S. army to its breaking point will buy time for something good to happen. I don't think you can make that case convincingly. So Mr. Murtha is right: it's time to leave. " There is truth that applies to us too I think

24-11-2005, 05:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
Angryjohn Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 309	I like that idea Captain. I agree.

24-11-2005, 08:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
UKIP MAN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,898	the thing is it was the biggest load of bollcks that has happened to this country and the person that committed it will walk away without anything done to him and he will also have a pension to go with it. he should be shot......

24-11-2005, 08:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,785 Party: Free England Party	HE SHOULD BE PUT ON TRIAL FOR IT ALL. SO SHOULD A FEW MORE OF HIS HENCHMEN. DRAW UP A LIST OF THEM ALL...... :x