Why perhaps Muslims might be a little p***** off.

mkpdavies · 27-07-2005, 01:20 PM

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1000990590

Quote:

Pentagon Blocks Release of Abu Ghraib Images: Here's Why

A Republican Senator suggested the same day they contained scenes of “rape and murder.” No wonder Rumsfeld commented then, "If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse."

Still, at least it's not Saddam doing it eh!

Percentage · 27-07-2005, 05:00 PM

Systematic abuse of detainees has been going on from the start with orders from the highest level.

Those members of the world community who wish to live in knowledge rather than have a blanket over there head owe a great debt of gratitude to Seymour Hersch!

His exposures will in future generations be the telling story of history!

mkpdavies · 27-07-2005, 05:01 PM

I was listening to a radio show on this.

The people being raped were kids, infront of their parents.

Vietnam all over again. It makes me sick.

Percentage · 27-07-2005, 05:07 PM

Wonder what Bill O'Rielly will say on that one!

mkpdavies · 27-07-2005, 05:18 PM

The price of freedom.

Dan · 27-07-2005, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Don't Wait for a Marksman - Get Stuck In
by Mark Steyn

According to his cousins back in Pakistan, Yorkshire lad Shehzad Tanweer decided to become a "holy warrior" because of "US abuse of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo Bay".

There is, of course, no "US abuse of Muslim prisoners in Guantanamo Bay". Newsweek's story about Korans being flushed down the toilet turned out to be a crock; minor examples of possible disrespect of the holy book are outweighed by multiple desecrations of their Korans by the detainees. One man was exposed to Christina Aguilera CDs played very loud in an attempt to break him, which I can't say I'd care for. Another had large chunks of Harry Potter read to him, but don't worry, it wasn't the new one.

None the less, to avenge the brutal torture of having Harry Potter read to you by a woman, Shehzad Tanweer self-detonated on the Underground and killed seven people. Ted Kennedy, Newsweek and the British press might like to ponder that before they puff up the next shameful torture technique (insufficient selection of entrées?) INTO phpbb_front page news. Loose lips sink Tube trips.

With that in mind, we turn to Jean Charles de Menezes, the supposed "suicide bomber" who turned out to be a Brazilian electrician on his way to work. Unfortunately, by the time the Metropolitan Police figured that out, they'd put five bullets in his head. We're told we shouldn't second-guess split-second decisions that have to be made under great stress by those on the scene, which would be a more persuasive argument if the British constabulary didn't spend so much time doing exactly that to homeowners who make the mistake of defending themselves against violent criminals. And, if summary extrajudicial execution was so urgent, why did the surveillance team let him take a bus ride before eventually cornering him in the Tube?

It's also true, as certain correspondents have noted, that the Brazilian police are not exactly masters of the light touch in law enforcement: in Baixada Fluminense on March 31 this year, 30 cyclists, poolroom habitués and transvestites were murdered by rogue cops. But multiculturalism surely should not extend to offering ethnic Londoners the levels of public service of whichever banana republic they've managed to get out of.

We at this newspaper are currently defending British soldiers facing prosecution for situations broadly analogous to those in which the Met found themselves. But there's still a difference. Anyone who rubs up against the military in Iraq knows what to expect: attempt to crash a roadblock and don't be surprised if they open fire. But few of us had an inkling of the Met's new "shoot to kill" policy until they shot and killed Mr de Menezes. And although I've had a ton of e-mails pointing out various sinister aspects of his behaviour - he was wearing a heavy coat! he refused to stop! - it seems to me there are an awful lot of people on the Tube who might easily find themselves in Mr de Menezes's position.

I happened to be passing through London on Friday. It didn't feel terribly warm, but I spend half a year up to my neck in snow so when it climbs to a balmy 48 I start wearing T-shirts. But I can understand why a Brazilian might find 61 and overcast no reason to eschew a heavy jacket. So a man in a suspiciously warm coat refuses to stop for the police. Well, they were a plain-clothes unit - ie, a gang - and confronted by unidentified men brandishing weapons in south London I'd scram, too.

On the same day, Mr de Menezes's jacket cost him his life, the Telegraph ran a page of portraits showing the dead of July 7. Many were like him: young adults of vaguely foreign extraction for whom English was a second language. Possibly they, too, had suspicious quirks of dress. Certainly, at any moment of the day the Tube's full of foreigners with heavy coats and bulky bags. They're on the Piccadilly line heading to Heathrow, the Victoria line to pick up the Gatwick Express, the Docklands to City Airport, the Northern to Euston. I doubt whether many Bulgars or Croats or Mauritians or Quebeckers or many of the rest of the vast tide of humanity sweeping through London every day would be sufficiently familiar with the Met's new policy to prostrate themselves quickly enough before plain-clothes marksmen.

If the defence of what happened to Mr de Menezes is that it was the right treatment but the wrong patient and we'd better get used to it, perhaps the British Tourist Board could post signs at Terminal Four: "BIENVENUE A LONDRES! WE SHOOT TO KILL!" On the other hand, the day before the Met inaugurated its new policy, three suicide bombers managed to escape through Tube stations full of people. At Mr de Menezes's station, Stockwell, according to passenger James Boampong, "an olive-skinned man" mumbled a final prayer and then attempted to self-detonate on the Northern line. It was, fortunately, a damp squib. But he left his smoking backpack on the floor and fled at the Oval, up the down escalator and out to the street. Three passengers and the flower seller outside the station attempted to stop him but failed. Where was everyone else? Were they, like Tube drivers on the Bakerloo later that morning, downing tools and withholding their labour?

"Defiance" has to be more than just the latest disposable cliché of the headline writers. It would have been better had the "olive-skinned man" been caught and Mr de Menezes had been allowed to go to his electrical job. To do that you need not killer cops but an alert citizenry that understands, when you're on a train underground and something funny starts, there's unlikely to be any elite marksmen down there to take care of it. It's up to you.

And in the broader sense, the pathetic public execution of an innocent man on July 22 joins the events of July 21 and July 7 as a reminder of why a narrow, reactive law-enforcement approach to terrorism will always penalise the populace more than the terrorists. You win this war militarily (in the badlands of Pakistan and elsewhere) and culturally (which is a much tougher battle). Shoot-outs on the Tube aren't going to be much help - though, if they advance from Brazilians at Stockwell to theatregoers at Leicester Square, overcrowding at the Olympics isn't likely to be a problem.

27-07-2005, 05:01 PM	#3 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,837 Party: Libertarian Party	I was listening to a radio show on this. The people being raped were kids, infront of their parents. Vietnam all over again. It makes me sick. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

27-07-2005, 05:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,837 Party: Libertarian Party	The price of freedom. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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27-07-2005, 05:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
Percentage Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 1,729	Systematic abuse of detainees has been going on from the start with orders from the highest level. Those members of the world community who wish to live in knowledge rather than have a blanket over there head owe a great debt of gratitude to Seymour Hersch! His exposures will in future generations be the telling story of history!

27-07-2005, 05:07 PM	#4 (permalink)
Percentage Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: N.Ireland Posts: 1,729	Wonder what Bill O'Rielly will say on that one!