Lib Dems 3 best reasons for joining the EU

mkpdavies · 01-12-2004, 02:38 PM

Hello to all our new forum members from the Lib Dems. I am very pleased to see you all here, as decent fair debate is what we need on the EU.

I have opened this thread to get the ball rolling on a proper debate on why you think the Lib Dems are right to want further EU integration.

What I don't want to see here is any bashing of any party, but just genuine reasons why Lib Dems believe Britain would be better off staying in the EU.

I would also be interested in any Lib Dems views, which are not down the party line, but more in tune with ours. I would say the same for UKIP members, but I doubt there are many UKIP supporters who do not favour withdrawal from the EU, shout here if I am wrong.

If you just want to make one point that is fine, or more is fine too. Keep it clean, and no punches below the bell! Ding Ding! round 1

mkpdavies · 02-12-2004, 04:29 PM

HELLO...Hello...hello

Is there anybody THERE...There...there?

*Wind blows*
*Tumbleweed rolls across screen*
*Loud church bells sounds Dongggggg*

There must be someone willing to put the case?

C_steam · 02-12-2004, 05:14 PM

Come off it Matt, you've only given them a day! These are LD's after all, known for their sloth-like speed and love of sandals (hardly speedy footwear)

They're probably having a meeting and deciding by PR what rank order to put the two responses in.

(NOW they should post...............!)

Bellatrix · 03-12-2004, 09:32 AM

This question can't be answered, because there are no good reasons forthe UK memebrship of the EU, unless you're a failed domestic politician who is friends with the PM, or a supernational company who can look forward to less and less competition due to the collapes of SMEs at the hands of EU regulations.

I'm just waiting for someone to jump up and say 'trade' so I can shoot them down with the truth about our Balance of Payments.

mkpdavies · 03-12-2004, 11:28 AM

Does anyone else find this depressing, that it is impossible to get the pro-EU camp to put their case. We have most of our political establishment trying to force this on us, yet it is near impossible to get anyone to even try making a case for it.

Charles Kennedy keeps moaning that Blair is not putting the case to Britain, so why doesn't he show some leadership and get his people out there to do it? They have one of the most organised collection of local branches, yet they are silent on the issue too.

Lib Dem, Labour or Conservative supporters, how can you vote for a party that won't, or worse can't argue the case for it's policies? Is it a leap of faith thing? I just don't understand it.

jp · 03-12-2004, 12:35 PM

Check the waffle in this when Kinnock tried to give a justification on the "Today" programme:

http://www.globalbritain.org/BBC/061...ionEXTRACT.doc

mkpdavies · 03-12-2004, 12:49 PM

And thats going up against someone who isn't even that interested in the whole issue. I would love to see a debate, chaired by an impartial person from a country from outside the EU, such as Canada. On one side you would have the 3 pro-EU people. Say Neil Kinnock, Peter Mandelson and John Redwood, maybe Michael Heseltine if Redwood didn't fancy it.

On the other we could have Nigel Farage, Robert-Kilroy-Silk and Roger Knapman.

I know who I would be betting on winning.

johnwest · 03-12-2004, 01:55 PM

There are no benefits in remaining in the EU. The Lib-Dems are a party dedicated to destroying the national identity by supporting a federal Europe. They are soft on immigration, crime and favour rabid political correctness. Remember the Lib-Dems in Islington forcing a school to drop the word 'saint' from its name? How anyone can vote for such a party is beyond me. They belong in the dustbin of history along with the failed Tories and Labourites. A vote for the Lib-dems is a vote for disaster.

Matt O'Grady · 06-12-2004, 03:18 PM

*Sigh* Looks like it's up to me then! And I'm aware I'm heavily out-numbered.....

1. Peace - Neo-liberal institutionalist theory states that peace is far more easily sustiained by inter-governmental organisations, especially those of a finaincial nature, as it simply becomes finanically impossible to go to war with a state in the same institution as you. By trying to involve some states that have had difficulties with peace (especially in the post-cold war era) it will be easier to create a lasting peace in Europe, which was one of the aims of the ECSC when it was set-up all those years ago.

2. Econcomy - A free market and a single market are different. While both are benefical, a single market is far more preferable. I only need to look at the factory in which my Dad worked for 25 years in my hometown in Somerset which is doing so poorly due to decreased trade with European nations due to the cost of transfering currency making it far cheaper for companies within Europe to purchase books from within the Eurozone.

3. The Social Chapter - While I'm sure as hell no harden trade unionist, I can reconise the benefits of the social chapter, especially seeing as I'm a student who would probably be earning far less without the minimum wage. Yes, it can be argued that it would be possible for a government to introduce this legislation itself upon leaving the EU, but I don't particuarly trust any party to do this!

I know these probably suck, but bear in mind I've had one hours sleep and my degree module on the EU doesn't start until January! :P

Anthony Butcher · 06-12-2004, 03:24 PM

1. Peace. As long as the strong trading links remain, the EU is unnecessary.

2. Economy. The EU works both for and against free trade. It works well for trade amongst EU member states, but is bad for global trade. A strong free trade agreement with the EU would be just as good for us, and may allow us to negotiate better deals with countries outside the EU. Swings and roundabouts.

3. The Social Chapter. We are perfectly capable of creating our own labour laws and human rights legislation. We do not need EU laws that cannot take INTO phpbb_consideration our local conditions, traditions and economy.

01-12-2004, 02:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Lib Dems 3 best reasons for joining the EU Hello to all our new forum members from the Lib Dems. I am very pleased to see you all here, as decent fair debate is what we need on the EU. I have opened this thread to get the ball rolling on a proper debate on why you think the Lib Dems are right to want further EU integration. What I don't want to see here is any bashing of any party, but just genuine reasons why Lib Dems believe Britain would be better off staying in the EU. I would also be interested in any Lib Dems views, which are not down the party line, but more in tune with ours. I would say the same for UKIP members, but I doubt there are many UKIP supporters who do not favour withdrawal from the EU, shout here if I am wrong. If you just want to make one point that is fine, or more is fine too. Keep it clean, and no punches below the bell! Ding Ding! round 1 __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

02-12-2004, 04:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	HELLO...Hello...hello Is there anybody THERE...There...there? Wind blows Tumbleweed rolls across screen Loud church bells sounds Dongggggg There must be someone willing to put the case? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

03-12-2004, 11:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Does anyone else find this depressing, that it is impossible to get the pro-EU camp to put their case. We have most of our political establishment trying to force this on us, yet it is near impossible to get anyone to even try making a case for it. Charles Kennedy keeps moaning that Blair is not putting the case to Britain, so why doesn't he show some leadership and get his people out there to do it? They have one of the most organised collection of local branches, yet they are silent on the issue too. Lib Dem, Labour or Conservative supporters, how can you vote for a party that won't, or worse can't argue the case for it's policies? Is it a leap of faith thing? I just don't understand it. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

03-12-2004, 12:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	And thats going up against someone who isn't even that interested in the whole issue. I would love to see a debate, chaired by an impartial person from a country from outside the EU, such as Canada. On one side you would have the 3 pro-EU people. Say Neil Kinnock, Peter Mandelson and John Redwood, maybe Michael Heseltine if Redwood didn't fancy it. On the other we could have Nigel Farage, Robert-Kilroy-Silk and Roger Knapman. I know who I would be betting on winning. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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02-12-2004, 05:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Anwhere far away from the cabalistas Posts: 7,431	Come off it Matt, you've only given them a day! These are LD's after all, known for their sloth-like speed and love of sandals (hardly speedy footwear) They're probably having a meeting and deciding by PR what rank order to put the two responses in. (NOW they should post...............!)

03-12-2004, 09:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Bellatrix Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 623	This question can't be answered, because there are no good reasons forthe UK memebrship of the EU, unless you're a failed domestic politician who is friends with the PM, or a supernational company who can look forward to less and less competition due to the collapes of SMEs at the hands of EU regulations. I'm just waiting for someone to jump up and say 'trade' so I can shoot them down with the truth about our Balance of Payments.

03-12-2004, 12:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
jp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 997	Check the waffle in this when Kinnock tried to give a justification on the "Today" programme: http://www.globalbritain.org/BBC/061...ionEXTRACT.doc

03-12-2004, 01:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	There are no benefits in remaining in the EU. The Lib-Dems are a party dedicated to destroying the national identity by supporting a federal Europe. They are soft on immigration, crime and favour rabid political correctness. Remember the Lib-Dems in Islington forcing a school to drop the word 'saint' from its name? How anyone can vote for such a party is beyond me. They belong in the dustbin of history along with the failed Tories and Labourites. A vote for the Lib-dems is a vote for disaster.

06-12-2004, 03:18 PM	#9 (permalink)
Matt O'Grady Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Swansea, EU Posts: 215	Sigh Looks like it's up to me then! And I'm aware I'm heavily out-numbered..... 1. Peace - Neo-liberal institutionalist theory states that peace is far more easily sustiained by inter-governmental organisations, especially those of a finaincial nature, as it simply becomes finanically impossible to go to war with a state in the same institution as you. By trying to involve some states that have had difficulties with peace (especially in the post-cold war era) it will be easier to create a lasting peace in Europe, which was one of the aims of the ECSC when it was set-up all those years ago. 2. Econcomy - A free market and a single market are different. While both are benefical, a single market is far more preferable. I only need to look at the factory in which my Dad worked for 25 years in my hometown in Somerset which is doing so poorly due to decreased trade with European nations due to the cost of transfering currency making it far cheaper for companies within Europe to purchase books from within the Eurozone. 3. The Social Chapter - While I'm sure as hell no harden trade unionist, I can reconise the benefits of the social chapter, especially seeing as I'm a student who would probably be earning far less without the minimum wage. Yes, it can be argued that it would be possible for a government to introduce this legislation itself upon leaving the EU, but I don't particuarly trust any party to do this! I know these probably suck, but bear in mind I've had one hours sleep and my degree module on the EU doesn't start until January! :P

06-12-2004, 03:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,679 Party: None	1. Peace. As long as the strong trading links remain, the EU is unnecessary. 2. Economy. The EU works both for and against free trade. It works well for trade amongst EU member states, but is bad for global trade. A strong free trade agreement with the EU would be just as good for us, and may allow us to negotiate better deals with countries outside the EU. Swings and roundabouts. 3. The Social Chapter. We are perfectly capable of creating our own labour laws and human rights legislation. We do not need EU laws that cannot take INTO phpbb_consideration our local conditions, traditions and economy.