Crowds march on presidency as anger over election erupts

Anthony Butcher · 24-11-2004, 04:35 AM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...372118,00.html

Quote:

THOUSANDS of demonstrators were camped outside Ukraine’s presidential headquarters last night as the country’s election crisis threatened to erupt INTO phpbb_civil conflict.

Supporters of Viktor Yushchenko, the pro-Western opposition leader defeated in Sunday’s disputed elections, confronted riot police ringing the headquarters after a day of high drama in which he defiantly took the oath of office and announced a campaign of civil disobedience.

“We won’t leave (the presidencial compound) until Yushchenko enters it as the new Ukrainian president and occupies his post,” Yuliya Tymoshenko, his coalition partner, declared. “Either they will give up their power or we will take it.”

The independent observers declared that there was widespread fraud, including government collusion. I fail to understand how a government can expect to maintain power, moral authority or the pretence of democracy under such conditions.

mkpdavies · 24-11-2004, 04:57 AM

Bush seems to have managed it in the states! :?

Anthony Butcher · 24-11-2004, 04:22 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4039329.stm

Quote:

Ukraine's election commission has declared Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych the official winner of the disputed presidential election.

Tens of thousands of opposition supporters, who say the vote was rigged, have surrounded the commission building in a third day of protests.

Earlier, Mr Yanukovych said he did not want a "fake victory".

Opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko has claimed massive electoral fraud and declared himself the rightful winner.

It all seems to be going rather well then. :roll:

Anthony Butcher · 26-11-2004, 01:46 AM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...375355,00.html

Quote:

UKRAINE’S Supreme court blocked the inauguration of the country’s Moscow-backed Prime Minister as President yesterday, boosting the hopes of opposition supporters as their protests galvanised INTO phpbb_direct action.

The court’s decision gave the pro-Western opposition leader, Viktor Yushchenko, his first victory in his struggle to overturn the official results of last Sunday’s election which handed the presidency to Viktor Yanukovych.

“This is only the beginning. It is proof that it is society that always wins. It is small compensation for the suffering that we have endured,” Mr Yushchenko told a huge crowd of cheering supporters gathered in Independence Square, Kiev.

Lafayette · 26-11-2004, 09:41 AM

This promises to be a sticky affair. Europe wants the one to win, President Putin wants the other. This is the kind of thing Europe will have to get used to as its power waxes and America's wanes. For the longest time I held an opinion similar to the one expressed by a few others in this forum that it would one day be the US/EU facing off in some awful war. Now, I think that in 20 years time if not sooner we will be of no real interest or concern to anyone while the EU and Russia get to re-enact the Cold War. I am no great fan of Europe proper by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel sorry for the continent in the same measure that I feel relieved our time is nearing its end. Even if it is not Russia, it will be something and Europe will have to sort through it. It is an impact and responsibility I would wish on no nation.

Nigel Garage · 26-11-2004, 10:46 AM

Ukraine is a deeply divided country, split between the south and east, which is very pro-Russia, and the north and west, which is pro-western and wants to join the EU.

America and the EU are trying (with the help of the mafia) to overturn the election result because it didn't go the way they wanted it to go. Just like Serbia in 2000 and Georgia in 2003.

Bodach · 26-11-2004, 10:58 AM

I had to laugh when I heard that the EU were sending a top envoy to help. I hope it all ends well and they get a bit of democracy but god help them if they get the EU type of rule with unelected commisioners. The EU has a bloody cheek to pontificate about democracy.

Playing the devil's advocate for a minute perhaps the figures were fiddled but could they have been nearer 50/50. There might be a lot of people that want to keep what was good about the old way - free health care and education to name but two: there must be people aware of what a shambles democracy can turn INTO phpbb_- perhaps the status quo voters are anti-EU too?
I don't think this is a black and white situation at all.

jp · 26-11-2004, 12:25 PM

The election was definitely fiddled. Impossibly high turnout in the East, fiddled postal ballots, massive bias in the media etc.

Nigel Garage · 26-11-2004, 12:53 PM

I'm always a bit cynical when the US and EU (those models of democratic probity) gang up on small countries because the vote didn't go the 'right way'.

Anthony Butcher · 26-11-2004, 02:03 PM

The BBC reported yesterday that in many pro-government areas, there were more votes cast than there were voters, i.e. more than a 100% turn-out.

24-11-2004, 04:57 AM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Bush seems to have managed it in the states! :? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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26-11-2004, 09:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lafayette Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 114	This promises to be a sticky affair. Europe wants the one to win, President Putin wants the other. This is the kind of thing Europe will have to get used to as its power waxes and America's wanes. For the longest time I held an opinion similar to the one expressed by a few others in this forum that it would one day be the US/EU facing off in some awful war. Now, I think that in 20 years time if not sooner we will be of no real interest or concern to anyone while the EU and Russia get to re-enact the Cold War. I am no great fan of Europe proper by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel sorry for the continent in the same measure that I feel relieved our time is nearing its end. Even if it is not Russia, it will be something and Europe will have to sort through it. It is an impact and responsibility I would wish on no nation.

26-11-2004, 10:46 AM	#6 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	Ukraine is a deeply divided country, split between the south and east, which is very pro-Russia, and the north and west, which is pro-western and wants to join the EU. America and the EU are trying (with the help of the mafia) to overturn the election result because it didn't go the way they wanted it to go. Just like Serbia in 2000 and Georgia in 2003.

26-11-2004, 10:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
Bodach Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Scotland - Alba Posts: 92	I had to laugh when I heard that the EU were sending a top envoy to help. I hope it all ends well and they get a bit of democracy but god help them if they get the EU type of rule with unelected commisioners. The EU has a bloody cheek to pontificate about democracy. Playing the devil's advocate for a minute perhaps the figures were fiddled but could they have been nearer 50/50. There might be a lot of people that want to keep what was good about the old way - free health care and education to name but two: there must be people aware of what a shambles democracy can turn INTO phpbb_- perhaps the status quo voters are anti-EU too? I don't think this is a black and white situation at all.

26-11-2004, 12:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
jp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 996	The election was definitely fiddled. Impossibly high turnout in the East, fiddled postal ballots, massive bias in the media etc.

26-11-2004, 12:53 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	I'm always a bit cynical when the US and EU (those models of democratic probity) gang up on small countries because the vote didn't go the 'right way'.

26-11-2004, 02:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,679 Party: None	The BBC reported yesterday that in many pro-government areas, there were more votes cast than there were voters, i.e. more than a 100% turn-out.