BonnieDundee

Exactly which period are you talking about?

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Mikeuk

It was hardly an issue in the days when most Europeans had never seen an African was it? However, the actions of Hawkins and the Spanish and Portuguese slavers, taken together with Queen Elizabeth's commands to expel 'negars' from London suggest that 'race consciousness' and negrophobia were not unknown many years before the 18th century.

Don't be ridiculous. Incidentally, rightly or (very possibly) wrongly, most of us picture an 'Australian' as a white European. Does your use of language indicate where you are coming from politically?

So? We share 90% of our DNA with the chimpanzee and 70% with the cockroach. Let's talk about whether we have more in common with lice or fleas. It would be just as unproductive.

You can beef on about these matters endlessly. I simply look at the fruits of 'White' rule and those of 'Black' rule and the implications are obvious. Incidentally I do not begrudge the Blacks the right to rule themselves. I just don't want to be there.

Nonsense. A Black American can choose to be a Catholic or a member of the American Rifle Association. He cannot choose to be a White European any more than I can choose to be a Black American.

That's the 20th century. In the centuries preceding industrialisation great civilisations rose and fell throughout Europe and Asia. The Black African has had his high points (Benin, Zimbabwe etc) but they have hardly been in the same league.

The rest of your post, with its reference to a supposed 'Master Race', is confusing and seems to contradict much of what you said previously.

Mikeuk

The Good Old Days before Socialists (and those who claim not to be Socialists but are) started telling us how to think.

In a free society a man should have the right to 'discriminate' against whomsoever he wishes. If the government believes in 'equal opps' let them implement that policy in the civil service and leave private citizens well alone.

'Racism brainwashing' is part of the march of tyranny.

Olympic Flame

Racism started together with colonialism and scientific racism was applied to justify social policy in the past.
I said scientific conclusion.


So your theory of racial biological determinism comes from your "look" into a history divided by "white rule" and "black rule".

I said scientific conclusion.

Because the idea that rise of fall of civilisations or individual performance is largely determined by their race lacks substantial back up from history.

The Bear

A 'decent' society in Britain for centuries?

You’re having a laugh.

Ignoring the fall out from The Great Plague and the improvements to living and working conditions that had on the working people, society in Britain was dreadful for the ordinary man up until the workforce became organised and took on the “bosses” in the aftermath to the Great War.

Even then it took WW2 to see Joe Public start to get a fair deal, a shame that Britain had been ruined by the declaration of war on Germany but that had been a “must Do”.

Had it not been for the US seeing WW2 as an opportunity to make money from all sides while watching the last of the British Empire go “Down the Suwannee”.

A position that it would probably have remained in if the Japanese hadn’t bombed Pearl Bailey (!?! ) and had the US not withheld aid to Britain, aid that really should have been paid, then life for the British would have been a lot better a lot sooner than it was.

The following years a combination of politicised unions and poor management culminating in the years preceding in the Conservative government of Mrs. T took the British ordinary guy in the street from starting to get what was owed to him to being a pawn in a never ending union driven Class fight but that’s another matter.

This isn’t about socialism let alone Marxism, this is about decency and an end to exploitation.


Egalitarianism ?

You surely are not objecting to egalitarianism?

It is a key aspect of a civilised society, anything else is utterly repugnant.

As regards (quote) ” usual left-wing brainwashing that occurs in higher educational establishments these days.”, my first degree a B.Sc. was awarded in 1966, and my last formal qualification, MBA, in 1999. Hardly “these days”.

In all that time never in anyone’s wildest dreams could I have ever been classed as being “Left Wing”. At worst Liberal but even that was only a phase I was going through probably as a result of a bad trip.

Look, one doesn’t need to be “Left Wing” to believe strongly in egalitarianism. All one needs to be is human with human rights and responsibilities and accept that other people are human too with exactly the same rights and responsibilities.

That’s all it takes.

__________________
I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Olympic Flame

Egalitarianism and ideas of equality are heavily present in Christianity. Late Renaissance's brith of secular version of egalitarianism such as natural rights, evolved into what we know as human rights dominate in world opinions today, particularly in the western world. All men are equal is also enshrined in the constitution of the United States of America back in the 18th century.

Claiming to be anti-egalitarian in western world seems more to be a revolutionary progressive rather than a reactionary conservative.

Egalitarian and equality are not simply marxist creation. What Marx saw as unjust and oppressive societies as fault of uncontrolled capitalism at his time, was predicted by him to fall inevitablely by growing proletariat consciousness.

It was the western neo-marxists who used non-Dialectical approach, as opposed to Marx's dialectical materialism,to extend Marxist ideas from primarily economic/class focus to social and cultural focus which Karl marx himself had never done so.

Mikeuk

It is true that the Christian gospels frequently exalt the poor at the expense of the rich and powerfu,l but modern state-imposed egalitarianism is purely secular.

And if you are rich enough and powerful enough you will always be able to buy yourself out of the system, anyway.

...unless you were black. In the USA the usual claptrap became hypocrisy on stilts.

I don't follow you. The chief opponents of egalitarianism have been conservatives - not necessarily reactionaries - and what we would now call libertarian liberals.
Of course this is a very important point. Marx claimed to be able to predict an inevitable future. Popper, who would have termed Marcuse and co 'Vulgar Marxists' pointed out before the last war that the Marxist thesis had failed because virtually all its predictions had already proved to be false.

But now, courtesy of the Frankfurt School and its hangers-on, we have pick-and-mix Marxism suitable for every sharp-suited yuppie. People like Bear gabble the rubbish they think other people want to hear them spouting without stopping to think how utterly inane it is.

Egalitarianism is partly about empty rhetoric and partly about the State bullying those whom it is in a position to bully. Do we bully Mr Murdoch or the Peoples' Republic of China? No of course we do not.

The Equality Emperor has no clothes.

Mikeuk

Listen very carefully I vill say zis only vonce...

Bullsh*t.

That explains a lot.

BonnieDundee

But British society could hardly be called a society of hierarchy and order in any fixed way even before 1900, it was constantly changing. To which epoch to you mainly look for your traditionalist values?

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

The Bear

Care to enlarge on that?

For example what does it explain to you?

No, really. I would be interested.

__________________
I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.