Ea of Dune

You mean like the Rothschilds and the Bush family and that Tory **** ripping us lot off to feather his sons nest and some of the others that stamp on other people to get rich?
No I think the strive for ones family and personal comfort, safety and happiness is far more noble. If it envolves money then fine, if you've got it and don't need to **** on people to get more then whatever, if you make it through an honest living and want more then great but..... When money becomes your sole goal then you only have to look at some of the worlds most control freak anti-libetarian people to see what it does.....

Ea of dune

tito

No, as I said money must be made and gained through contract. Never stolen, extorted, etc. Like all the violent thugs you mentioned.

Family, personal comfort, safety and happiness: money can get you all of these. Whoever said money can't make you happy is a liar. It isn't the only way to achieve happiness, but it is certainly a noble way.

--Ayn Rand

You need to stop thinking of selfishness as the brute who crushes all in his path to gain for himself. He is not selfish, he is an altruist to subhuman instinct. He is a criminal, he must be locked up.

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Robin

Tito,

Let`s leave aside for now whether we should be in the EU, the free market,wealth creation ,benefits paid to Poles and Brits and striving for money.
The fact; I.3 million or more Eastern europeans allowed into our country.

1)Is this in Britains interest ?
2)Why do we need more immigrants ?
3)Do we want to depress wages ?
4)Do we need a transient population making our country feel like an international airport ?
5)Is it fair for our older folk to have to compete with youth from around the world ?

I should replace the word society with nation.The nation has had a housing policy. There was the need to replace bombed homes after the war. Maggie Thatcher had the Right To Buy scheme in her time. Whether we look to public building or private companies, i still feel that the nation should have a policy about our essentials.

Bluemerle

Unfortunately, we have allowed an underclass to flourish in this country. Youngsters who are quite comfortable sitting at home watching day-time TV with the rest of the family who have never worked in their lives. They are paid more on the dole than any employer would be willing to give them. They are lazy and feckless. Many cannot read, let alone write. Employers are more than happy to employ foreign labour which doesn't cost as much as British labour. On the whole, most of these foreigners are happy to work, earn and save, unlike our sub-class who rely on handouts from the state.

Robin

Bluemerle,

There istruth in what you say, but the influx of these migrant workers doesn`t affect the feckless, it affects the workers.
The foreigners are happy to save because they can, £1 here worth five times that in their own countries.Otherwise they are in ne different a class than our own.

tito

It's nice and easy to brush aside other issues. As it happens, I do believe that for as long as we are enslaved by socialism we need to start cutting back on the number of immigrants, bloody quickly at that.
But immigration strengthens a free society.

1) Britain has no interest. There has never been a common purpose, and there never will be.

2) See 1

3) "We" should not want to do anything to wages. We are discussing transactions that are not ours to make.

4) Again, this "we" you talk of. I don't really mind if people are here to stay or not, it's none of my business.

5) Of course it isn't fair, but it is certainly more fair then enforced fairness.

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Robin

tito

You are not speaking to a collectivist, Robin, groups have no common interest. As with everything that happens in a free market, some people benefit and others do not, the key is to adapt to put yourself in the best position for the market.

You are correct, I do not feel a common bond with my compatriots. I am polite to those I haven't met, and I choose my friends, but I am certainly not the brothers or kin of any individual I have not chosen to be so. I am an objectivist. I feel we should cut back on immigration (in the current illiberal system) not for the benefit of people I do not know, but for the benefit of my wallet which will have to pay for the immoral benefits handed out to the newcomers.

Immigration may well be depressing wages, but that is a natural progression, that less skilled jobs become less valuable and eventually valueless. Nobody is paid less than they want to be, unless they don't know the difference between want and irrational wishing.

Which people of the nation? With more immigration (And no socialism, might I add) my father would become wealthier, he owns a business. However, me and my mother would likely become poorer (unless we adapted.) I work unskilled part time, and my mother is a dental nurse.

I still haven't brought in the golden bullet however. In a true free market there are always more jobs than people.

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Robin

Tito,
People do have common interests. Normally it is family, freinds and nation. That`s how we`ve lived and worked for centuries.It helps us accept the rules that we need for any society (or whatever you want to call it) that has progressed beyond the hunter-gatherers.

For a free market to work, you need stability. A society does not want itinerant populations coming and going, occupying land for indefinate durations. People cant always keep adapting,especially if there is no stability. Why train for any length of time if the job you aim at is made unavailable at any time ?
Work also takes its toll on people. Some work epecially more than others. If there is not going to be a more gradual change in the nations employment, but sudden radicalism then people will play safe and not take jobs that are important for us all. Desk jobs and government employ will be what everyone wants, and the damage to the nation filled with only such bods will be incalcuble.
Who says there are always more jobs than people in a free market ?

tito

Selfishness says.

I'm not saying open the floodgates, by any means. But it is absolutely vital that companies are allowed to employ people from abroad.

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