100,000 young Britons pushed into unemployment by immigrants

TannyD · 30-01-2008, 01:42 PM

As I said before I wouldn't mind doing a job that involved cleaning or on the refuse collection, but the jobs for cleaning I have seen don't offer enough hours and the refuse jobs I have seen require someone with a driving licence. Catch 22...no money, no chance of taking driving tests and getting a driving licence and car.

tito · 30-01-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranter

No not because you are English but because you have a Family to keep, a house to pay for,council tax to pay,gas ,electric and water,Things that if you are not working the social pays for. (everyone else through their taxes)

On the other hand give the job to immigrant man who lives Ten to a flat and sends money home to his Family in Eastern Europe where his family are on benifits because he has "deserted "them.(I know this is not always the case but from my experiance quite common)

By the way they dont do the job better than us, just cheaper.

So what? If you can't afford to keep your family, why did you get one? It's a lifestyle choice, not a right.

Why don't Britons live 10 to a flat then? Are we so high and mighty that we feel we must give ourselves expensive luxuries that we can't afford?
The "social", as in socialism, is not something I support either.

Of course not all of them do the job better, but they do appreciate the work more and are usually more keen than the people who can always drop out, complain about immigrants taking their jobs and claim welfare payments.

I am a student. I work minimum wage in a Chip Shop, and also write articles for a Polish magazine (Oh the irony!) for 23 Euros per page.

Kevin Adamson · 30-01-2008, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tito

So what? If you can't afford to keep your family, why did you get one? It's a lifestyle choice, not a right.

My family is fine thanks .

Why don't Britons live 10 to a flat then? Are we so high and mighty that we feel we must give ourselves expensive luxuries that we can't afford?
The "social", as in socialism, is not something I support either.

Stupid comment

Of course not all of them do the job better, but they do appreciate the work more and are usually more keen than the people who can always drop out, complain about immigrants taking their jobs and claim welfare payments.

If you are better off on the dole then you will be on the dole

I am a student. I work minimum wage in a Chip Shop, and also write articles for a Polish magazine (Oh the irony!) for 23 Euros per page.

Cod and chips twice and easy on the vinegar

tito · 30-01-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranter

Cod and chips twice and easy on the vinegar

OK, £9.80 please

(Ridiculous prices, eh?)

Robin · 30-01-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tito

So what? If you can't afford to keep your family, why did you get one? It's a lifestyle choice, not a right.
Why did the Poles start a family and need benefits from the UK ?
Some people start families before the nation goes mad and has open borders.
Why don't Britons live 10 to a flat then? Are we so high and mighty that we feel we must give ourselves expensive luxuries that we can't afford?
The "social", as in socialism, is not something I support either.
Because we`ve moved on. Why should we live in abject poverty so that people from other countries use a favourable exchange rate to undercut here and send the money there to be rich ?
Stop the Socialism of sending our taxes to other countries.

Of course not all of them do the job better, but they do appreciate the work more and are usually more keen than the people who can always drop out, complain about immigrants taking their jobs and claim welfare payments.
They dont` apreciate the "work" more-it`s the money. They also claim welfare .

I am a student. I work minimum wage in a Chip Shop, and also write articles for a Polish magazine (Oh the irony!) for 23 Euros per page.

Are you Polish ?

tito · 30-01-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin

Are you Polish ?

No, Welsh.

I didn't hear a Pole whining that he needs the money to support his family, and that is aside from the point in any case. If a Pole said his wages were too low because he needed to feed his family, my attitude would be the same.
Poles asking for benefits? Now that is an outrage. I wouldn't have socialism for immigrants any more than I would have it for natives.
Your point about having a family before open borders doesn't mean much. So the market has changed, adapt or lose, that is the nature of the market.

We've moved on? Certainly housing is easier to get now, but if by "moved on" you mean demanding that other people pay more than your worth, that isn't progress. If you are not getting paid enough, then you have not made yourself valuable enough. Nobody has the right to a house at all, but one does have the rights to the fruit of their labour.

Yes, it is of course the money that is appreciated, which is a perfectly just and rational motive.

Ranter:

I didn't mean "your" personally, it was the infamous "you" that has many rants addressed at him!

I don't support socialism (AKA, the transfer of wealth from the moral to the immoral) is a stupid comment? Or I don't believe you are entitled to anything you didn't acquire through mutual contract?

Unless, of course, there is no dole

eublues · 30-01-2008, 10:52 PM

Sadly British children in school now will increasingly struggle to find a job that pays much over the sacred minimum wage - even if they go on to university. Such people are to be exposed to 'globalisation' rates of pay. An elite strand will continue of course but this will be a small group and the divide will widen.

Kevin Adamson · 31-01-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tito

OK, £9.80 please

(Ridiculous prices, eh?)

HOW MUCH ?

Now where did Mrs Ranter put that fishing rod ?

Robin · 31-01-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tito

No, Welsh.

I didn't hear a Pole whining that he needs the money to support his family, and that is aside from the point in any case. If a Pole said his wages were too low because he needed to feed his family, my attitude would be the same.
Do the Poles come to you to do their whining ?

Poles asking for benefits? Now that is an outrage. I wouldn't have socialism for immigrants any more than I would have it for natives.
Your point about having a family before open borders doesn't mean much. So the market has changed, adapt or lose, that is the nature of the market.
Adapt or change to what ? Any guarantee that the next adaption wont be mucked up by this rigged EU market ? How many times do we have to adapt ? At what age would we be beyond adaption ?

We've moved on? Certainly housing is easier to get now, but if by "moved on" you mean demanding that other people pay more than your worth, that isn't progress. If you are not getting paid enough, then you have not made yourself valuable enough. Nobody has the right to a house at all, but one does have the rights to the fruit of their labour.
Well maybe no one has an absolute right to a house, but a civil society should strive that it is easilt attainable.
"Not getting paid enough"?! well in this expensive land that is a situation easily fallen into. Expensive because we are subsidising the very lands these immigrants come from.
Yes, it is of course the money that is appreciated, which is a perfectly just and rational motive.
And I remember dealing with Poles in their own country when they weren`t paid good wages.

Ranter:

I didn't mean "your" personally, it was the infamous "you" that has many rants addressed at him!

I don't support socialism (AKA, the transfer of wealth from the moral to the immoral) is a stupid comment? Or I don't believe you are entitled to anything you didn't acquire through mutual contract?

Unless, of course, there is no dole

WE expect to adapt to proper market conditions, which usually happen over a period of time, but not because our own political establishment has brought in bad policies which riggs the market against us.

tito · 31-01-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Do the Poles come to you to do their whining ?

I work with Slovakians and Czechs, they are all working to build and achieve, not to pay for something they can't afford.
Two of them are working so that they can buy a house and put some money away so that they can have a family, now that's the proper way to do it.

Quote:

Adapt or change to what ?

Supply and demand.

Quote:

Any guarantee that the next adaption wont be mucked up by this rigged EU market ?

No, but we are both discussing idea outside of the status quo, and we both (I hope) believe that we should immediately pull out of the EU. You can't make a criticism of a free market and back it up with evidence from an unfree market.

Quote:

How many times do we have to adapt ?

As often as you feel you are not making enough money. It's not a constant, it depends on what people feel is worth paying for.

Quote:

At what age would we be beyond adaption ?

The age at which you die... What an odd question, no philosophy can rewrite the certainties of nature.

Quote:

Well maybe no one has an absolute right to a house, but a civil society should strive that it is easilt attainable.

Now that is an odd comment. "Society", the great collective for which all evils are done, is not something that ever strives. The individuals within it strive, often for different things.
There is a direct incentive to create cheap housing, that being the large demand, thus the market forces push towards cheap housing. If I could make a brick for a penny I would be a millionaire, and thousands of people would have saved money. Wealth is created you see, not just transferred.

Quote:

"Not getting paid enough"?! well in this expensive land that is a situation easily fallen into. Expensive because we are subsidising the very lands these immigrants come from.

Again, that isn't a criticism of the free market, it is a criticism of the status quo, which neither of us support.
Do I sound like the kind of person that would send a penny piece of taxpayers money abroad?

Quote:

And I remember dealing with Poles in their own country when they weren`t paid good wages.

The strive for money is a noble one. However, nobody deserves money. Wealth must be made and gained through contract, not stolen, begged for, bullied for, etc.

Quote:

WE expect to adapt to proper market conditions, which usually happen over a period of time, but not because our own political establishment has brought in bad policies which riggs the market against us.

I agree. I believe the welfare state must be dismantled slowly, but only after we take the government's grubby paws out of the market.

30-01-2008, 01:42 PM	#41 (permalink)
TannyD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Gloucester-Land of the Gulls!!! Posts: 792	As I said before I wouldn't mind doing a job that involved cleaning or on the refuse collection, but the jobs for cleaning I have seen don't offer enough hours and the refuse jobs I have seen require someone with a driving licence. Catch 22...no money, no chance of taking driving tests and getting a driving licence and car. __________________ TannyD, like Sunny D only better!! http://www.nationstates.net/01838/pa...n=mutantfreaks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XbOw...eature=related http://www.answerbag.com

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30-01-2008, 10:52 PM	#47 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,967	Sadly British children in school now will increasingly struggle to find a job that pays much over the sacred minimum wage - even if they go on to university. Such people are to be exposed to 'globalisation' rates of pay. An elite strand will continue of course but this will be a small group and the divide will widen.