They're doing jobs the British wont do

This-England · 10-10-2006, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soddball

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Youles

The minimum wage is rapidly becoming the standard wage. It will be interesting to see if eastern europeans start doing the work of accountants, lawyers, journalists, broadcasters and managers.

As more homes get reposessed and sold because of mortgage arrears, it will be intersting to see what happens to house prices - the principal asset of the self-satisfied managerial class.

Lets hope so.

The people that are suffering most are young professionals and private sector workers who are attempting to join the property market. This mythical 'managerial class' to which you refer (which I'm sure I would have heard of before) - what exactly is wrong with them? Is it the politics of envy speaking?

It will wake them up a bit when they too realise they can be replaced by immigrants.

This-England · 10-10-2006, 04:49 PM

Britain will end up like Zimbabwe.

Moving Target · 27-10-2006, 11:24 PM

This particular phrase really turns my stomach also.

Rather alarmingly I find myself agreeing more and more with Julie Burchill - (not only on this topic but on most things these days - is this bad?) as she says:

"It is amazing how quickly journalists from liberal newspapers who revere the trade union movement and the workers’ struggle become fervent supporters of free-market politics when it means they can get a dirt-cheap Croatian au pair or a Polish plumber, and are so willing to swallow the reactionary old lie about how the British workforce is too idle to do certain jobs. I’d argue that when someone refuses to do a job for less than £5 an hour it doesn’t signal idleness at all, but simply a certain dignity and self-worth, and an understandable reluctance, after the long hard struggle of the British working class, to simply roll over and do tricks for pennies. One longs for the day when editors decide that it really doesn’t make sense to take on British hacks any more when you can get some eager, obedient Eastern European graduate to do the job for half the price. If that day ever comes, you can bet that this Slav-sucking attitude will be out of the window quicker than you can say “I’m all right, Jakob!” Until then, who cares about a bunch of whining proles?"

I agree whole-heartedly. If no-one wants to do the work - put the wages up and people will. Add this to more attention to the benefits system (like the American Welfare reform) and this is surely the way forward.

What are the much 'trumpeted' benefits that such low wages have brought to the economy? Massive dividends on shares held by globalizes captains of industry? In all seriousness - I do ask (as my A Level economics has long been forgotten) those of you better versed in this area?

mkpdavies · 28-10-2006, 01:02 AM

There are benefits and there are bad points. Having a reasonable fair amount of migration is good. Australia have it almost as good as you can get it.

Allowing the floodgates to open all in one go causes all kinds of problems.

We have 8 million economically inactive people in this country.

Older people are effectively on the scrap him now.

Crime gangs are having a field day.

Many of the less employable migrants end up on the streets, commiting crime to survive.

Wages are driven right down for the working class.

Schools have huge strains put on them having to provide services they are not equiped to provide.

The tax take is actually very low, as many worker do take the minimum wage or less in the black market.

The countries they come from have lost their young bright workers, to a country that uses them to deliver pizza.

WHEN we have an economic downturn (when Browns policies really hit home), their will be major strife.

Totally crazy, but sadly we will suffer for it as a done deal now.

The extremist party in this country will have it's best opportunity to get the Nazi Britian it wants by exploiting it at the right moment.

If we don't kick out the Troika soon, there will be no way of stopping it.

Moving Target · 28-10-2006, 01:23 AM

What ARE the economic benefits we're reminded of?

A larger availability of Au pairs and nannies. Cheaper (less qualified and lower standard) tradesmen.

What has the economic benefit been to me? Have my taxes been reduced? Has public spending been increased in that health care and other public amenities are better? Is education and schooling better? Is inflation lower than it might of been?

I don't think I see the benefits - but I guess that they might still exist. In this debate I've never heard the real benefits being explained.

I'm sure I read a study that in terms of net economic benefit of migration - the top 20% earning migrant workers effectively made up for the remaining 80%. This seems more like social engineering than a cogent and beneficial migration policy.

mkpdavies · 28-10-2006, 01:43 AM

Business gets cheap workers, thus can compete better in the world.

Share holders get more money, thus spend it on our economy (if they live here).

Competition for jobs = harder workers usualy.

Very big picture benefits, but the total lack of balance and consideration into the downsides for both the people who live hear, come here and the countries they leave is disgraceful.

Economics is important, but it isn't everything!

This-England · 28-10-2006, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

There are benefits and there are bad points. Having a reasonable fair amount of migration is good. Australia have it almost as good as you can get it.

Allowing the floodgates to open all in one go causes all kinds of problems.

We have 8 million economically inactive people in this country.

Older people are effectively on the scrap him now.

Crime gangs are having a field day.

Many of the less employable migrants end up on the streets, commiting crime to survive.

Wages are driven right down for the working class.

Schools have huge strains put on them having to provide services they are not equiped to provide.

The tax take is actually very low, as many worker do take the minimum wage or less in the black market.

The countries they come from have lost their young bright workers, to a country that uses them to deliver pizza.

WHEN we have an economic downturn (when Browns policies really hit home), their will be major strife.

Totally crazy, but sadly we will suffer for it as a done deal now.

The extremist party in this country will have it's best opportunity to get the Nazi Britian it wants by exploiting it at the right moment.

If we don't kick out the Troika soon, there will be no way of stopping it.

Australia is letting in over 100,000 immigrants a year.
They have had Lebanese rape gangs; Vietnamese heroin gangs now even trouble with African and Pacific Islander criminal gangs.
All topped off by the race riots early this year where in one Aussie town the locals had enough of the women been raped and harassed and local lads beat up.
Canada is in an even worse position now.
Immigration always has been and always will be a disaster.

This-England · 28-10-2006, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Business gets cheap workers, thus can compete better in the world.

Share holders get more money, thus spend it on our economy (if they live here).

Competition for jobs = harder workers usualy.

Very big picture benefits, but the total lack of balance and consideration into the downsides for both the people who live hear, come here and the countries they leave is disgraceful.

Economics is important, but it isn't everything!

Last I read the two big communities we let in after the was the Caribbean’s and Pakistanis both still run at an economic loss.
The Pakistani unemployment rate is huge.
So much for the benefits of immigration.

mkpdavies · 28-10-2006, 02:35 AM

As I said, there are benefits and denying it is stupid. There are also downsides though, some of them major.

Mass immigration is truly mental.

Robin · 28-10-2006, 07:04 PM

Business overheads can be lowered by less taxes, in order to compete in the world.

You cant lower taxes when you`re spending a fortune on immigration issues.

28-10-2006, 01:02 AM	#24 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	There are benefits and there are bad points. Having a reasonable fair amount of migration is good. Australia have it almost as good as you can get it. Allowing the floodgates to open all in one go causes all kinds of problems. We have 8 million economically inactive people in this country. Older people are effectively on the scrap him now. Crime gangs are having a field day. Many of the less employable migrants end up on the streets, commiting crime to survive. Wages are driven right down for the working class. Schools have huge strains put on them having to provide services they are not equiped to provide. The tax take is actually very low, as many worker do take the minimum wage or less in the black market. The countries they come from have lost their young bright workers, to a country that uses them to deliver pizza. WHEN we have an economic downturn (when Browns policies really hit home), their will be major strife. Totally crazy, but sadly we will suffer for it as a done deal now. The extremist party in this country will have it's best opportunity to get the Nazi Britian it wants by exploiting it at the right moment. If we don't kick out the Troika soon, there will be no way of stopping it. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

28-10-2006, 01:43 AM	#26 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	Business gets cheap workers, thus can compete better in the world. Share holders get more money, thus spend it on our economy (if they live here). Competition for jobs = harder workers usualy. Very big picture benefits, but the total lack of balance and consideration into the downsides for both the people who live hear, come here and the countries they leave is disgraceful. Economics is important, but it isn't everything! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

28-10-2006, 02:35 AM	#29 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	As I said, there are benefits and denying it is stupid. There are also downsides though, some of them major. Mass immigration is truly mental. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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10-10-2006, 04:49 PM	#22 (permalink)
This-England Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,682	Britain will end up like Zimbabwe.

27-10-2006, 11:24 PM	#23 (permalink)
Moving Target Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 53	This particular phrase really turns my stomach also. Rather alarmingly I find myself agreeing more and more with Julie Burchill - (not only on this topic but on most things these days - is this bad?) as she says: "It is amazing how quickly journalists from liberal newspapers who revere the trade union movement and the workers’ struggle become fervent supporters of free-market politics when it means they can get a dirt-cheap Croatian au pair or a Polish plumber, and are so willing to swallow the reactionary old lie about how the British workforce is too idle to do certain jobs. I’d argue that when someone refuses to do a job for less than £5 an hour it doesn’t signal idleness at all, but simply a certain dignity and self-worth, and an understandable reluctance, after the long hard struggle of the British working class, to simply roll over and do tricks for pennies. One longs for the day when editors decide that it really doesn’t make sense to take on British hacks any more when you can get some eager, obedient Eastern European graduate to do the job for half the price. If that day ever comes, you can bet that this Slav-sucking attitude will be out of the window quicker than you can say “I’m all right, Jakob!” Until then, who cares about a bunch of whining proles?" I agree whole-heartedly. If no-one wants to do the work - put the wages up and people will. Add this to more attention to the benefits system (like the American Welfare reform) and this is surely the way forward. What are the much 'trumpeted' benefits that such low wages have brought to the economy? Massive dividends on shares held by globalizes captains of industry? In all seriousness - I do ask (as my A Level economics has long been forgotten) those of you better versed in this area?

28-10-2006, 01:23 AM	#25 (permalink)
Moving Target Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 53	What ARE the economic benefits we're reminded of? A larger availability of Au pairs and nannies. Cheaper (less qualified and lower standard) tradesmen. What has the economic benefit been to me? Have my taxes been reduced? Has public spending been increased in that health care and other public amenities are better? Is education and schooling better? Is inflation lower than it might of been? I don't think I see the benefits - but I guess that they might still exist. In this debate I've never heard the real benefits being explained. I'm sure I read a study that in terms of net economic benefit of migration - the top 20% earning migrant workers effectively made up for the remaining 80%. This seems more like social engineering than a cogent and beneficial migration policy.

28-10-2006, 07:04 PM	#30 (permalink)
Robin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 934	Business overheads can be lowered by less taxes, in order to compete in the world. You cant lower taxes when you`re spending a fortune on immigration issues.