They're doing jobs the British wont do

brian pearson · 02-10-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian pearson

Widespread home ownership is a very good thing. To base an economy on it is a recipe for disaster long term.

I wouldn't say that! For years the price of a family car equalled the average working mans annual wage and car prices were worked out on that basis!

Don't understand what you mean. My point was that the present economy seems to kept bouyant due to spending fuelled by ridiculous spiralling house prices. When the credit spending stops what else have we got ?

kernow · 02-10-2006, 04:02 PM

Sorry Brian, I was so keen on getting my bit out about car prices I had completely misunderstood your very valid point

ops: .

This-England · 09-10-2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Youles

The minimum wage is rapidly becoming the standard wage. It will be interesting to see if eastern europeans start doing the work of accountants, lawyers, journalists, broadcasters and managers.

As more homes get reposessed and sold because of mortgage arrears, it will be intersting to see what happens to house prices - the principal asset of the self-satisfied managerial class.

Lets hope so.

This-England · 09-10-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian pearson

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian pearson

Widespread home ownership is a very good thing. To base an economy on it is a recipe for disaster long term.

I wouldn't say that! For years the price of a family car equalled the average working mans annual wage and car prices were worked out on that basis!

Don't understand what you mean. My point was that the present economy seems to kept bouyant due to spending fuelled by ridiculous spiralling house prices. When the credit spending stops what else have we got ?

3 years ago a street house round the corner from me went for £17,500 the same house was sold at the start of this year for £68,000.
Strange how my wages havnt risen to match this.

Soddball · 09-10-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Youles

The minimum wage is rapidly becoming the standard wage. It will be interesting to see if eastern europeans start doing the work of accountants, lawyers, journalists, broadcasters and managers.

As more homes get reposessed and sold because of mortgage arrears, it will be intersting to see what happens to house prices - the principal asset of the self-satisfied managerial class.

Lets hope so.

The people that are suffering most are young professionals and private sector workers who are attempting to join the property market. This mythical 'managerial class' to which you refer (which I'm sure I would have heard of before) - what exactly is wrong with them? Is it the politics of envy speaking?

mkpdavies · 10-10-2006, 12:57 PM

I thank my lucky stars that I brought my first house pre-Blair. Even back then I though it was a struggle, but the thought of doing it now, when wages for graduates have not gone up anywhere near as much, well its scary.

My brother in law has been working a few years now and still can't afford a place of his own. So he has to give money away in rent, just because no one will give him a mortgage.

Lucky for him , his parents are probably going to help him out now, but not everyone has that luck.

Yet still Britain pushes it's population levels to insane, unsustainable levels. Supply and demand, with demand growing by the day, means only the rich will be able to afford their own home, just like victorian times.

Blair is taking this country backwards, as he has been told to by his EU masters. Break Britain and it will surrender to full EU control, which was always going to be difficult.

Soddball · 10-10-2006, 01:11 PM

I was looking at renting vs mortgage where I live. It'd cost me £1,200 p/m to buy where I'm living at the moment, as opposed to £825 p/m in rent. I have no worries about stuff going wrong - the landlord deals with it. I'm allowed to maintain the garden and keep a pet. I don't have an immense debt hanging over my head. I don't see what the fuss about owning a home is all about, frankly.
Oh yes, I can't decorate. But I can't do that anyway because I'm a disaster with a paint brush.

mkpdavies · 10-10-2006, 01:21 PM

Short term, nothing.

However, with my mortage I am still paying the same amount now, as I was when I got it. In just 5 years that has meant I am paying just over a grand a month, if I was renting now I would be paying over three grand a month for the place I live in.

And the place will be mine one day!

The question is, will there be a big house price crash?

I don't think so. Not as long as we keep ramping up the demand.

My first house I bought for 55k and I got a lodger in to pay some of it off for me too. I sold it for 130k 4 years later.

Renting is a complete mugs game, UNLESS you rent at exactly the right time (IE just before a crash). I had a friend who was convinced the house market was going to bomb at the same time as I bought my house. He owened a £500 000 pad, but sold it to rent, until the crash happned. It never did and if he had kept hold of it, it would have been worth nearer £1000 000 now. He has bought another place now, but he says it was the biggest mistake he ever made.

Soddball · 10-10-2006, 01:50 PM

But you're in a different situation - you already own your property.

I don't think renting is a mug's game at all. It suits me well - the house is modern, the landlord is reasonable, the price for the rent is fair. I need a larger house than I could afford to buy because I work from home. I saw a 1-room (not 1-bedroom, 1 room) flat for sale for £99,950 at the weekend, but other than that 1-bed flats are going for £120,000 here.

You keep hearing about house prices going up, but they're the average house price, not the median, so it doesn't mean a huge amount.

mkpdavies · 10-10-2006, 02:03 PM

I understand it is hard to get on the ladder and in the short term, actually impossible.

However, in the long term, as long as you don't buy just before a crash, owning has to be better than renting.

This is what scares me the most about the future for people. We are returning to an era where there is a rich property owning class and then an underclass who can't afford to get on the ladder. Their rent keeps going up, so they never really get much equity behind them, while the property owners collect the rent and buy more property.

They pass this on to their kids, who do very nicely by selling or renting them out again, while the underclass passes on almost nothing, consigning their kids to the underclass.

Meanwhile the underlclass swells in numbers, because the whole of Europes waifs and strays come here and competition for the ordinary jobs is fierce, thus wages stay low.

When the socialist model of benefits finally collapses, we have an very ****** off underclass who turn to violence and crime. Britain ends up in complete ruin.

10-10-2006, 12:57 PM	#16 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	I thank my lucky stars that I brought my first house pre-Blair. Even back then I though it was a struggle, but the thought of doing it now, when wages for graduates have not gone up anywhere near as much, well its scary. My brother in law has been working a few years now and still can't afford a place of his own. So he has to give money away in rent, just because no one will give him a mortgage. Lucky for him , his parents are probably going to help him out now, but not everyone has that luck. Yet still Britain pushes it's population levels to insane, unsustainable levels. Supply and demand, with demand growing by the day, means only the rich will be able to afford their own home, just like victorian times. Blair is taking this country backwards, as he has been told to by his EU masters. Break Britain and it will surrender to full EU control, which was always going to be difficult. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

10-10-2006, 01:21 PM	#18 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	Short term, nothing. However, with my mortage I am still paying the same amount now, as I was when I got it. In just 5 years that has meant I am paying just over a grand a month, if I was renting now I would be paying over three grand a month for the place I live in. And the place will be mine one day! The question is, will there be a big house price crash? I don't think so. Not as long as we keep ramping up the demand. My first house I bought for 55k and I got a lodger in to pay some of it off for me too. I sold it for 130k 4 years later. Renting is a complete mugs game, UNLESS you rent at exactly the right time (IE just before a crash). I had a friend who was convinced the house market was going to bomb at the same time as I bought my house. He owened a £500 000 pad, but sold it to rent, until the crash happned. It never did and if he had kept hold of it, it would have been worth nearer £1000 000 now. He has bought another place now, but he says it was the biggest mistake he ever made. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

10-10-2006, 02:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,158 Party: Libertarian Party	I understand it is hard to get on the ladder and in the short term, actually impossible. However, in the long term, as long as you don't buy just before a crash, owning has to be better than renting. This is what scares me the most about the future for people. We are returning to an era where there is a rich property owning class and then an underclass who can't afford to get on the ladder. Their rent keeps going up, so they never really get much equity behind them, while the property owners collect the rent and buy more property. They pass this on to their kids, who do very nicely by selling or renting them out again, while the underclass passes on almost nothing, consigning their kids to the underclass. Meanwhile the underlclass swells in numbers, because the whole of Europes waifs and strays come here and competition for the ordinary jobs is fierce, thus wages stay low. When the socialist model of benefits finally collapses, we have an very ****** off underclass who turn to violence and crime. Britain ends up in complete ruin. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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02-10-2006, 04:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,183	Sorry Brian, I was so keen on getting my bit out about car prices I had completely misunderstood your very valid point ops: .

10-10-2006, 01:11 PM	#17 (permalink)
Soddball Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 272	I was looking at renting vs mortgage where I live. It'd cost me £1,200 p/m to buy where I'm living at the moment, as opposed to £825 p/m in rent. I have no worries about stuff going wrong - the landlord deals with it. I'm allowed to maintain the garden and keep a pet. I don't have an immense debt hanging over my head. I don't see what the fuss about owning a home is all about, frankly. Oh yes, I can't decorate. But I can't do that anyway because I'm a disaster with a paint brush.

10-10-2006, 01:50 PM	#19 (permalink)
Soddball Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 272	But you're in a different situation - you already own your property. I don't think renting is a mug's game at all. It suits me well - the house is modern, the landlord is reasonable, the price for the rent is fair. I need a larger house than I could afford to buy because I work from home. I saw a 1-room (not 1-bedroom, 1 room) flat for sale for £99,950 at the weekend, but other than that 1-bed flats are going for £120,000 here. You keep hearing about house prices going up, but they're the average house price, not the median, so it doesn't mean a huge amount.