Reid calls for "mature debate" on migration

John Page · 06-08-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Reid calls for migration debate

Home Secretary John Reid has called for a mature debate on the immigration challenges facing Britain.

Mr Reid said: "We have to get away from this daft so-called politically correct notion that anybody who wants to talk about immigration is somehow a racist."

The skills migrants contributed had to be weighed against the burden placed on schools and hospitals, he told the BBC.

Mr Reid also highlighted his proposal for an independent committee to advise on the optimum level of immigration.

The independent body would prevent the issue being used as a "party political football" and would provide a clear indication that the government was listening to public concerns, he said.

The Home Secretary also defended the government's decision to allow people from new European Union states to work in the UK.

According to latest government figures, 374,555 from the eight nations - including 228,235 Poles - registered for work here between May 2004 and the end of March this year.

Mr Reid stopped short of saying whether similar rights to settle and work would be granted to would-be migrants from Romania and Bulgaria when they join the EU next year.

Reports have suggested that he is wary of allowing free access to the UK job market to workers from these two states.

But Mr Reid said: "People recognise that others from outside this country can bring great skills here, but they also want to be assured that our services - whether it's schools or hospitals - and indeed their own terms and conditions will be preserved and immigration will be managed."

Reassurance

He went on: "I don't accept that there's this unmanaged tide, but I do accept that people want reassurance that when we are allowing people to come to this country, they contribute something towards it."

Challenged on BBC News 24 about the numbers of illegal immigrants currently in the UK, Mr Reid admitted that he did not have an accurate figure.

"What I do know is this: We have to give the Immigration and Nationality Directorate more power to manage on a long-term basis. We have to enforce our borders better, and I am bringing in means of doing that, doubling the enforcing regime."

'Spin and bluster'

Shadow home secretary David Davis said: "It is welcome that John Reid is finally acknowledging what we have been telling the government for some time now, but he should realise that the British public expect real action, not just more spin and bluster.

He added: "The Home Secretary should not transfer responsibility for the level of immigration to a migration committee merely to duck accountability on the issue. Whatever the recommendations of the committee, the Home Secretary must remain accountable."

Cold War

In an address to think tank Demos on Wednesday, Mr Reid is expected to say mass migration in a globalised world is the "greatest challenge facing European governments".

He will say that the Cold War froze the world into a static state but that now that had changed, in part due to "porous borders", "failed states" and "affordable transportation".

"There is greater potential to create wealth and expand opportunities, but the volume and speed of movements can also carry insecurity into the heart of our communities," he will say.

Sir Andrew Green, the chairman of Migration Watch UK, said that he welcomed a mature discussion and the concept of an optimum level of immigration.

mkpdavies · 06-08-2006, 07:07 PM

Bit rich.

Some would say it's like bolting the stable door when the horse legged it some time ago.

eublues · 06-08-2006, 07:09 PM

It's too late now for this incompetent and corrupt government to sort out the immigration mess even if they want to (which I doubt).

gimlet · 06-08-2006, 08:11 PM

Can anyone really now sort it out?

John Page · 06-08-2006, 09:10 PM

He's an astute politician and he's trying to kick it into the long grass.

eublues · 06-08-2006, 09:42 PM

Possibly even this government is getting cold feet over mass immigration from Romania and Bulgaria in the new year.

Britannist · 07-08-2006, 05:07 AM

The mass influx is deliberate - carefully orchestrated by the europhile Labour Government which has channelled nearly all of the incomers into the English part of the UK on purpose.

As the eurosceptic columnist Richard Littlejohn wrote in the Daily Mail last week (1.8.2006) (extracts) (From an article entitled “No ceasefire in Labour's war against the English”):

Mr. Littlejohn said that the europhile Labour Government is out “to change irrevocably the face of England and it is England which is the main target (of Labour) and which has taken most of the collateral damage.”

Mr. Littlejohn observed “The Blair government has been firing cultural Katyusha missiles into Middle England since May 1997 and there is (in England) a deep well of anger and frustration at Labour's venality, incompetence and cultural vandalism. From day one - or Year Zero as I christened it in the Mail back in 1997 - Labour has set out to destroy England as we knew it. While the Welsh, and the Scots have been given their own parliaments the IRA encouraged to take over Northern Ireland, the English have been subjugated, abused and ignored.”

Mr. Littlejohn added “A friend of mine took his daughter out of a council-run primary school in North London when he discovereed that although she could sing the anthem of the African National Congress, she didn't know the words to God Save the Queen. Now that they've got the thumbs-up from goverment, the Guardianistas running the education system will probably drop British history from the syllabus altogether.”

Mr. Littlejohn addressed the mass influx of foreigners since Labour returned to Government in 1997 “Mass immigration - legal and illegal - has transformed parts of England into foreign countries. Labour MP Frank Field compares it with Stalin's forced migration in the Ukraine. Entire neighbourhoods are being ethnically cleansed - and it's the English who are getting out of town. Anyone who objects is slandered as a racist/xenophobe/Little Englander/BNP blah, blah, blah. But as I keep stressing, this is not about race, it's about numbers.” Earlier generations of immigrants are complaining (as much, if not more than other groups), Mr. Littlejohn noted, including Cassandra Gosai who wrote a letter to Mr. Littlejohn pointing out "As an ethnic minority English Woman living in Newham, East London, your article struck home. My husband (a British Indian from east Africa) and myself have seen our borough change beyond recognition in the last five to six years, Now I could be in Cairo, Pakistan or Yogoslavia.”

The guilty party was Labour, Mr. Littlejohn declared, and the mass influx to the UK deliberate. “This is Labour's immigration policy. The plan from the off was to create as many new British citizens as possible in the shortest period of time in the hope that they would return the favour by voting Labour” Mr. Littlejohn stated.

He said Labour was making a two-pronged attack on the natural Conservative majority in England – through letting in large numbers of immigrants and by creating a massive client state by Gordon Brown (the UK Labour Government Chancellor) putting hundreds of thousands of people into non-jobs at public expense and millions of others on welfare and tax credits (thus making them reliant on the state and a Labour Government).

”Ministers pretend that they are going to get a grip on immigration, but only because they can't admit the plain and simple truth that (with more and more people coming in to the UK) everything is going exactly to plan” Mr. Littlejohn observed. He concluded “As for the hundreds of thousands of British citizens selling up and emigrating every year, so much the better, That's part of the plan too, They were only likely to vote Conservative, anyway. So if you are contemplaing emigration, there's no reason to feel guilty. It's what the Government wants. Just don't all rush at once.”

John Page · 07-08-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Mr Reid also highlighted his proposal for an independent committee to advise on the optimum level of immigration.

My emphasis. Quite why Mr Reid thinks a policy about "the optimum level of immigration" is worth a row of beans when the EU demands open borders is a puzzle - and not one that Mr Davis seems keen to highlight.

John Page · 07-08-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Home Secretary John Reid is fighting a revolt by his mandarins over plans to slam the door on a new tide of immigrants from Eastern Europe.

Ministers have discussed secret moves to stop up to 300,000 Romanians and Bulgarians coming here from next year.

But they may have to abandon the moves because Home Office lawyers say that under human rights law the migrants could demand - and win - the same access as up to 600,000 Poles and other Eastern Europeans who have already been let in.

The farce was condemned by Labour ex-Minister Frank Field, who has led calls for Britain to halt Eastern European immigration.

It emerged that Mr Field has been secretly encouraged by senior sources in the Government to step up his demands to stem the flow of Eastern Europeans.

Mr Field said that officials telling Ministers they cannot slam the door on Romanians and Bulgarians 'are the same people who said there would only be a trickle of people coming from Poland'.

He added: "Ministers must stick to their guns and overrule them."

The Government has reviewed its migration policies after its estimate that only 13,000 would come here when Poland and seven other East European nations joined the EU turned out to be wildly inaccurate.

Blatant duplicity

A decision on giving the same rights of access to 30million Romanians and Bulgarians when they join the EU in 2007 must be made before the end of the year. Independent groups say up to 300,000 Romanians and Bulgarians could come here from next year.

A Home Office official said Mr Reid had 'options' which would allow Britain to give restricted employment rights to Romanians and Bulgarians, who generally have a lower standard of living than Poles.

One option would be to follow Germany, which has issued a controlled number of 'work permits', allowing it to keep the flow of migrant workers to a few thousand.

Meanwhile, Home Office Minister Joan Ryan was accused of 'blatant duplicity' last night after claims that she had tried to conceal the threat from Eastern Europe.

The Mail on Sunday revealed last week how a secret memo she wrote last month warned schools, hospitals, housing, welfare and wages could be hit by the new wave of settlers.

Yet in two letters sent weeks earlier to Stewart Jackson, Tory MP for Peterborough, where 2,000 Poles have settled, she denied that there was a problem.

Mr Jackson said: "The Government is guilty of blatant duplicity by trying to hide the truth, which is that it has completely failed to control immigration and towns like mine are having to bear the brunt of that failure."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Quite remarkable that the dozy gents who potter about at the centre of the party haven't got anything onto the national website yet. But maybe not surprising.

andypandy · 08-08-2006, 11:14 AM

How can there ever be an open discussion on immigration when the immigrants themselves will almost certainly be asked their opinions? I recall similar discussion in the 1970's and in the 1980's held on television and the audience was always made up of at least 1/5 or more post war, non-European migrants. Native Britons will never be allowed to discuss this issue amongst themselves as long as the immigrants themselves are allowed to brow-beat and intimidate by their presence, those wanting an 'open' discussion.

The whole deabte is, and always was/will be, a load of ********.

The whole thing will end in tears, ask the Fujians and Sri Lankans, each suffering generations of the effects of British aristocratic liberal incompetance.

06-08-2006, 07:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Bit rich. Some would say it's like bolting the stable door when the horse legged it some time ago. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

07-08-2006, 05:07 AM	#7 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Deliberate The mass influx is deliberate - carefully orchestrated by the europhile Labour Government which has channelled nearly all of the incomers into the English part of the UK on purpose. As the eurosceptic columnist Richard Littlejohn wrote in the Daily Mail last week (1.8.2006) (extracts) (From an article entitled “No ceasefire in Labour's war against the English”): Mr. Littlejohn said that the europhile Labour Government is out “to change irrevocably the face of England and it is England which is the main target (of Labour) and which has taken most of the collateral damage.” Mr. Littlejohn observed “The Blair government has been firing cultural Katyusha missiles into Middle England since May 1997 and there is (in England) a deep well of anger and frustration at Labour's venality, incompetence and cultural vandalism. From day one - or Year Zero as I christened it in the Mail back in 1997 - Labour has set out to destroy England as we knew it. While the Welsh, and the Scots have been given their own parliaments the IRA encouraged to take over Northern Ireland, the English have been subjugated, abused and ignored.” Mr. Littlejohn added “A friend of mine took his daughter out of a council-run primary school in North London when he discovereed that although she could sing the anthem of the African National Congress, she didn't know the words to God Save the Queen. Now that they've got the thumbs-up from goverment, the Guardianistas running the education system will probably drop British history from the syllabus altogether.” Mr. Littlejohn addressed the mass influx of foreigners since Labour returned to Government in 1997 “Mass immigration - legal and illegal - has transformed parts of England into foreign countries. Labour MP Frank Field compares it with Stalin's forced migration in the Ukraine. Entire neighbourhoods are being ethnically cleansed - and it's the English who are getting out of town. Anyone who objects is slandered as a racist/xenophobe/Little Englander/BNP blah, blah, blah. But as I keep stressing, this is not about race, it's about numbers.” Earlier generations of immigrants are complaining (as much, if not more than other groups), Mr. Littlejohn noted, including Cassandra Gosai who wrote a letter to Mr. Littlejohn pointing out "As an ethnic minority English Woman living in Newham, East London, your article struck home. My husband (a British Indian from east Africa) and myself have seen our borough change beyond recognition in the last five to six years, Now I could be in Cairo, Pakistan or Yogoslavia.” The guilty party was Labour, Mr. Littlejohn declared, and the mass influx to the UK deliberate. “This is Labour's immigration policy. The plan from the off was to create as many new British citizens as possible in the shortest period of time in the hope that they would return the favour by voting Labour” Mr. Littlejohn stated. He said Labour was making a two-pronged attack on the natural Conservative majority in England – through letting in large numbers of immigrants and by creating a massive client state by Gordon Brown (the UK Labour Government Chancellor) putting hundreds of thousands of people into non-jobs at public expense and millions of others on welfare and tax credits (thus making them reliant on the state and a Labour Government). ”Ministers pretend that they are going to get a grip on immigration, but only because they can't admit the plain and simple truth that (with more and more people coming in to the UK) everything is going exactly to plan” Mr. Littlejohn observed. He concluded “As for the hundreds of thousands of British citizens selling up and emigrating every year, so much the better, That's part of the plan too, They were only likely to vote Conservative, anyway. So if you are contemplaing emigration, there's no reason to feel guilty. It's what the Government wants. Just don't all rush at once.”

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06-08-2006, 07:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,967	It's too late now for this incompetent and corrupt government to sort out the immigration mess even if they want to (which I doubt).

06-08-2006, 08:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
gimlet Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Shropshire Posts: 802	Can anyone really now sort it out?

06-08-2006, 09:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
John Page Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Welwyn Hatfield (Herts.) Posts: 1,878	He's an astute politician and he's trying to kick it into the long grass.

06-08-2006, 09:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,967	Possibly even this government is getting cold feet over mass immigration from Romania and Bulgaria in the new year.

08-08-2006, 11:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
andypandy Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	How can there ever be an open discussion on immigration when the immigrants themselves will almost certainly be asked their opinions? I recall similar discussion in the 1970's and in the 1980's held on television and the audience was always made up of at least 1/5 or more post war, non-European migrants. Native Britons will never be allowed to discuss this issue amongst themselves as long as the immigrants themselves are allowed to brow-beat and intimidate by their presence, those wanting an 'open' discussion. The whole deabte is, and always was/will be, a load of ********. The whole thing will end in tears, ask the Fujians and Sri Lankans, each suffering generations of the effects of British aristocratic liberal incompetance.