Was Henley a good result for UKIP?

Ea of Dune · 30-06-2008, 03:06 PM

I agree, the above results where not the best UKIP could have hoped for.
It seems a shame to me as UKIP seem to have had bad results and been let down by some of their MEPs who have decided making a fast buck in Brussels is better then doing the job they are there for.

Maybe the grass roots members in UKIP need to kick out the untrustworthy bunch and concentrate on building grass roots support in areas like they seem to have done in the Westcountry.

However a bad result for UKIP or the Eng Dems is a bad result for anyone who wants to get out of the EU.

Ea of dune

Wowbanger TIP · 30-06-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe

No doubt you would enjoy that with your "no, it was a load of b*llocks" type of answer.

Alternatively I could just start a new thread entitled "was Henley a good result for the BNP?" or "Poverty of Aspiration: The BNP in Henley".

Which would you prefer?

Course if you want to silence me all you have to do is win the argument. Good Luck with that.

Wowbanger TIP · 30-06-2008, 04:42 PM

Henley is another example of the UKIP's central problem.

The simple matter is that while the majority of the public would rather be out of Europe, indeed I dare say widening the Channel why a few hundred miles at the expense of Northern France would be supported by a significant amount of Britions, they matter is simply not anywhere near the top of the political agenda. Therefore a political Party, no matter how well organized or active, is not the appropriate vehicle in order to achieve the desired result.

If there was a referendum of the Euro, Lisbon or the EU itself you can bet your bottom dollar that the good folk of Henley would have voted for British sovereignty en mass. However when they are electing local and national representation they will do so according to the traditional rules of the game, vote to keep the other shower out, even if the other shower haven't a chance in that particular area. Trying to teach an electorate about tactical voting and the value of the protest vote is a long and laborious business.
The best example and most effective protagonists of which, the LDs, have absolutely sod all to show for thirty years of doing quite well at it.

UKIP is based on a fundamentally flawed premise, that a successful political party can be built around an issue of secondary importance. It's only hope of success, by which I mean doing slightly better, is to try and become a Party of the traditional right. However without being able to tackle the key issue, immigration and multiculturalism, the Party can not build a coherent right wing policy set. In much the same way the Greens can't build a credible environmental policy set because they can not face up to the same issues either.

What is required in a change of strategy. UKIP members must be reintegrated into the Conservative Party where they can ally themselves with the Eurosceptic movement in that Party and push for a Conservative withdrawal policy. This is the only way the desired result has any possibility of being achieved.

Much better to fight a civil war in the Tories than a electoral one on the streets.

The best hope the moderate right have of regaining control of this country is to retake the Conservative Party, not that that would be easy but it is possible.

a swansong 4 europe · 01-07-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wowbanger TIP

Alternatively I could just start a new thread entitled "was Henley a good result for the BNP?" or "Poverty of Aspiration: The BNP in Henley".

Which would you prefer?

Course if you want to silence me all you have to do is win the argument. Good Luck with that.

You really don't get it do you? Years of stagnation and generally poor performances, and over a period of less than 7-8 years the fortunes of this "poverty of aspiration" party have been transformed in a way that the media AND its opponents actually takes the BNP seriously.

I doubt this is an argument you could ever win as it is based on pure negativity and your own personal failure to achieve whatever objectives you set out to, within the BNP.

I suggest that you simply do not have the patience or staying power to see the project through and would be better off collecting daisies or helping school children across the road.

a swansong 4 europe · 01-07-2008, 08:17 PM

Wowbanger. as for wanting to silence you, don't take things too seriously here. I like our little chats and have no intention of wanting you to shut up, even if you are irritating! It's just clear that we see things from a different perspective; mine from 30 years of electoral failure for nationalist parties, and yours of a failure to impress within the ranks of the BNP.

View Poll Results: Was Henley a good result for UKIP?
Brilliant	3	6.00%
Pretty Good	1	2.00%
OK	0	0%
Poor	14	28.00%
Terrible	31	62.00%
Don't Know/Care	1	2.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

30-06-2008, 03:06 PM	#41 (permalink)
Ea of Dune Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Hell Posts: 1,010	Results I agree, the above results where not the best UKIP could have hoped for. It seems a shame to me as UKIP seem to have had bad results and been let down by some of their MEPs who have decided making a fast buck in Brussels is better then doing the job they are there for. Maybe the grass roots members in UKIP need to kick out the untrustworthy bunch and concentrate on building grass roots support in areas like they seem to have done in the Westcountry. However a bad result for UKIP or the Eng Dems is a bad result for anyone who wants to get out of the EU. Ea of dune

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30-06-2008, 04:42 PM	#43 (permalink)
Wowbanger TIP Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 570	Henley is another example of the UKIP's central problem. The simple matter is that while the majority of the public would rather be out of Europe, indeed I dare say widening the Channel why a few hundred miles at the expense of Northern France would be supported by a significant amount of Britions, they matter is simply not anywhere near the top of the political agenda. Therefore a political Party, no matter how well organized or active, is not the appropriate vehicle in order to achieve the desired result. If there was a referendum of the Euro, Lisbon or the EU itself you can bet your bottom dollar that the good folk of Henley would have voted for British sovereignty en mass. However when they are electing local and national representation they will do so according to the traditional rules of the game, vote to keep the other shower out, even if the other shower haven't a chance in that particular area. Trying to teach an electorate about tactical voting and the value of the protest vote is a long and laborious business. The best example and most effective protagonists of which, the LDs, have absolutely sod all to show for thirty years of doing quite well at it. UKIP is based on a fundamentally flawed premise, that a successful political party can be built around an issue of secondary importance. It's only hope of success, by which I mean doing slightly better, is to try and become a Party of the traditional right. However without being able to tackle the key issue, immigration and multiculturalism, the Party can not build a coherent right wing policy set. In much the same way the Greens can't build a credible environmental policy set because they can not face up to the same issues either. What is required in a change of strategy. UKIP members must be reintegrated into the Conservative Party where they can ally themselves with the Eurosceptic movement in that Party and push for a Conservative withdrawal policy. This is the only way the desired result has any possibility of being achieved. Much better to fight a civil war in the Tories than a electoral one on the streets. The best hope the moderate right have of regaining control of this country is to retake the Conservative Party, not that that would be easy but it is possible.

01-07-2008, 08:17 PM	#45 (permalink)
a swansong 4 europe Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 411	Wowbanger. as for wanting to silence you, don't take things too seriously here. I like our little chats and have no intention of wanting you to shut up, even if you are irritating! It's just clear that we see things from a different perspective; mine from 30 years of electoral failure for nationalist parties, and yours of a failure to impress within the ranks of the BNP.