Francis

Exactly.

It's not a serious one on one discussion, nor is it viewed as such, where as serious correspondence carries much more weight.

Imagine if you will, Alistair Darling on a forum in the current climate, you (personally) amongst a throng of chattering voices, many of them flippant, or even insulting, would be lucky to even get an answer, you most certainly wouldn't get a 'conversation'.

You'd make your post, get a stock answer, and then things would move on.

In the real world you'd send your e-mail/letter, or make your phone call, get a stock answer, and then have the opportunity to tell the guy that his stock answer just isn't good enough, and to make follow up points, and all that without further muddying our legislation, and paying millions of pounds out.

Besides, if you had experience of forums you'd know how easy it is for them to be manipulated, and for cliques to form, and mob mentality to rule, a mob mentality that has nothing to do with democracy.

Millennium3

If the facility was not used responsibly by those entitled to use it [that MP's constituents] it would not harm the MP since, if he knew that what was being said was not the view held by the majority, he could be dismissive of such groups.

You seem very protective of the MP's - your not one or the member of one's staff are you?

Francis

So on top of your £7.5 million white elephant we now have to set up committees to deem what is the view of the majority, and what isn't?

Your scheme becomes more and more costly, trivial, and burdensome by the second.

More protective of my country, and with a desire to separate fluffy idealism, from reality.

Lots of things sound good on the internet, or the back of an envelope, but in reality don't work the way they are imagined, and only cause problems.

Such things are a detriment to our nation, and to our government, and I'm fiercely opposed to them, as I seek to protect my nation.

We already have far to much junk legislation, that makes our lives worse, and costs us a fortune, just because someone, somewhere, thought it sounded like a good idea, at the time, the last thing we need is more unworkable junk.

We have a system that does the job you are basically asking to be done, if utilized properly we don't need to add anymore legislation, or costs to our lives.

Fixing a bad idea on top of that will only serve to make things worse, and cost us more money, sure, I'll hold my hands up, I'm first in the line to protect against things like that.

Millennium3

The MP would not have to set up committees - there are enough opinion polls for MP's to know what the general view of the public is on the important issue. I agree that there is a mass of costly and unnecessary legislation which frequently does more harm than good. Mostly the taxpayer would not want their hard earned money spent on such nonsense, but this is a way that the taxpayer can genuinely influence these wastes of money. By attacking the very individuals who are sanctioning them. This is not fluff - that MP's act in accordance with the electorates wishes is the root of democracy.

Francis

So the forum is pointless then, if the views you are getting have to conform to the views you have already got from another source?

You're merely paying £7.5 million, and possibly a lot more, for an echo.

So why add to it?

But they can't, so it's just another waste of money.

Wake up, smell the real world.

Firstly, if we followed this ludicrous course, we'd spend millions of pounds on a white elephant, secondly the importance of comments would be determined by opinion polls, so the opinions are already canvased, thirdly it would hardly even be approaching democracy.

I mean think about it for one minute, I mean that, stop daydreaming, stop trying to justify what was an awful idea, and think about it for a while.

Let's start by actually thinking whether a system like this is going to make one iota of difference to anything, shall we?

Let's, for example, compare it to the equally idiotic white elephant which was the Number Ten petitions, introduced by Tony Blair, has that given the people anymore power, or made the government anymore accountable?

Of course it hasn't, a good number of petitions are pulled, if they don't match government thinking, a further number are completely ignored, because they don't fit government policy, and the vast, overwhelming majority of the public don't even participate in them, so they have achieved nothing, zero, nought, nada, not a bean, and now you want to spend millions of pounds on an equally useless and toothless scheme that further burdens the tax payer, and further burdens our legislative system?

What exactly would happen on your little forum, and remember, think about it this time, actually stop and think.

Firstly Mrs. Miggins, of Shrewsbury, and the millions of other elderly pensioners like her, who don't have any access to the internet, would have no say, and the same would apply to Keith, the unemployed plumber from Derby, who doesn't have an internet connection.

Peter from Ipswich, who isn't the most articulate, and a little hot headed, has been banned, because members of the British Hooligan league baited him into saying something silly, and Jennifer, of London, left because she was frankly uncomfortable because of abuse from the same parties.

Mr H. of Andover, would like to participate more, but unfortunately the surgeries clash with his work hours, and Miss. L. of Gwent is nervous about her privacy, as her questions are private and personal, so she'd rather use traditional methods anyway.

So all in all we're left with a goodly share of the population being excluded from your rather costly little white elephant.

Meanwhile, back at BHL headquarters Biffer Barry has got his mates together, and they've decided to invade the MP from Norwich's surgery today, and steam roll it, in an effort to push their opinions onto the government, and the people, we've already seen them bait Peter, into getting banned, and scare Jennifer off, but on top of that they've sent a virus to Ian, to incapacitate his computer, to make sure he can't participate, and sent copious amounts of pornography to Lisa, from Scotland, to chase her away, and now they sit there mob handed, several members with multiple ID's, set up using proxies, bouncing the discussion in their direction, only for it to be ignored anyway, because it doesn't conform to the opinions that were collated in a recent opinion poll.

Bit of a pointless, and expensive waste of money, wasn't it?

And, on the off chance that the MP did take Biffer and his friends seriously, a complete undermining of the democratic process.

No, it's far, far worse.

Exactly, so why undermine that system with junk?

We have a system, one man, one vote, and if the elected representative doesn't fulfill his obligations his term can be terminated at the next election.

It's not a perfect system, but it works, and giving over to mob ruled forums, that exclude vast swathes of the population, and would be ignored by the politicians anyway, except where politically expedient, is not only naive folly, but potentially dangerous to the very fabric of our democracy.

I for one would be loathed to pay vast sums of money to set up an unwanted, unneeded, unworkable system, that further over burdens our legislation, and serves no purpose, but could potentially be misused to undermine the democratic process.

Why you insist on continuing to push such a line, when it's clearly been demonstrated that it has no merit, is beyond me.

C_steam

If there was an alliance of anti EU parties...

Pigs would fly.

__________________
--------------------------------------------------

Users on ignore list: None. I've got to have people to laugh at.
Cowardly Posters* list: BobFM, Bellatrix.*People who post personal insults then refuse to reply

.

Millennium3

F - I am not going to respond to your last post because I have become suspicious that you, a total newcomer to this forum, are making such an ferocious effort to undermine a suggestion which is well worth debate - I suspect ulterior motives. I will say that this concept is the political classes worst nightmare.

Francis

No, I just showed you had dreamed up a silly idea.

Thanks for the suspicions and insults, it's still a bad idea though.

And Democracies biggest nightmare too, for all the valid reasons given, that you chose not to respond to, mainly, contrary to the insults and excuses, because it showed what a silly idea it was, and your last answer was a perfect example of why.

You refuse to accept facts, and instead toss out excuses, and frankly borderline to insults, because you had a bad idea, and you want to employ that as a democratic process?

How will those less mature, and stable, than yourself behave, if that is the way you react?

I think you just made a good case why it's a bad idea.

Millennium3

Reduce your post to the bones and I will reply

Francis

No, I say what I mean, not what you want me to say.

What you are asking is for me to change my post, why should I?

It's a bad idea, accept it and move on.