"Labour would win landslide says new YouGov poll for Telegraph"

For_England · 23-09-2007, 12:13 AM

according to the BNP, UKIP cost the Cons around 30 seats in 2005. They make that claim here:
British National Party -Labour's useful UKIP allies
However if they have 'spun' this I'm open to be corrected.

ukpopdems · 23-09-2007, 12:14 PM

I like your point about Cons self-destructing. You could be right and this has been long forecast. Personally, I think I've been wrong in publicly forecasting this could never happen, as my experiences have come from Canadian Tories who were destroyed, but have come back.

I've been talking to Peter Hitchens who is a firm believer in 'The Death of The Tories'. I thought he was mad, but now, I don't know, he might be right and it'll be me making the apology.

Independence Now! · 23-09-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Not the London or 'East' Midlands of England Labour Parties - the swing from Labour to UKIP in the last EU Election and in the last London Assembly election (both held on the same day) was massive - over 16% in some Assembly constituencies.

UKIP cost Labour 2 seats in the 'East' Midlands constituency at the last EU Election. UKIP also reduced Labour's representation at the last EU Election in the south-east of England EU constituency.

If there is any advantage for Labour from UKIP taking votes from the Conservatives - it is an advantage caused by the europhile impostors in the Conservative Party stopping the Tory Party from becoming a proper pro-sovereignty party (its natural role).

In other words, if Labour have an advantage from UKIP contesting constituencies (and taking vital votes from the Conservatives) Labour has this advantage because the Conservatives have - by being pro-EU - lost anti-EU voters to UKIP.

The europhiles in the Conservative Party could be helping Labour.

Yes, there is no doubt that UKIP has gained quite a few ex-Tory voters by being anti-EU. The Tories have lost voters to you, to abstention and to the BNP by their pro-EU stance.

Britannist · 23-09-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukpopdems

I like your point about Cons self-destructing. You could be right and this has been long forecast. Personally, I think I've been wrong in publicly forecasting this could never happen, as my experiences have come from Canadian Tories who were destroyed, but have come back.

They came back in Canada under a Thatcherite, pro-sovereignty leader - now Prime Minister of Canada.

Britannist · 23-09-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnpforme

according to the BNP, UKIP cost the Cons around 30 seats in 2005.

The claim has also been made by the eurosceptic Bruges Group (which includes many Conservatives) - they published a list of 27 constituencies after the last General Election which said that UKIP/Veritas took vital votes off the Conservatives resulting in victory for Labour (such as at Harlow in Essex).

As I have written earlier - UKIP took many votes off Labour at the last EU and Assembly elections in the capital.

The point is - even if UKIP did cost the Conservatives victory in up to 30 constituencies at the last General Election it is being argued that it was the europhiles in the Conservative Party which cost the Conservatives gains in those seats (i.e. by the europhiles in the Conservative Party stopping the Conservative Party from adopting its natural role of being a pro-sovereignty party resulting in anti-EU Conservative voters switching to UKIP thus depriving the Conservatives of much-needed votes in key marginal constituencies).

Britannist · 23-09-2007, 11:14 PM

MP's urge Gordon Brown to call snap election - Telegraph

Independence Now! · 25-09-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

The claim has also been made by the eurosceptic Bruges Group (which includes many Conservatives) - they published a list of 27 constituencies after the last General Election which said that UKIP/Veritas took vital votes off the Conservatives resulting in victory for Labour (such as at Harlow in Essex).

As I have written earlier - UKIP took many votes off Labour at the last EU and Assembly elections in the capital.

The point is - even if UKIP did cost the Conservatives victory in up to 30 constituencies at the last General Election it is being argued that it was the europhiles in the Conservative Party which cost the Conservatives gains in those seats (i.e. by the europhiles in the Conservative Party stopping the Conservative Party from adopting its natural role of being a pro-sovereignty party resulting in anti-EU Conservative voters switching to UKIP thus depriving the Conservatives of much-needed votes in key marginal constituencies).

I agree. The Conservative Party has lost god knows how many voters from its failure to be a proper Conservative Party. Since 1992 when they were returned to office for a record fourth term with the largest number of votes any party winning a general election has ever gained they have lost around 5 million supporters and so far at least there is precious little sign of these 5 million 'lost Tories' returning.

Britannist · 25-09-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independence Now!

The Conservative Party has lost voters from its failure to be a proper Conservative Party. Since 1992 when they were returned to office for a record fourth term with the largest number of votes any party winning a general election has ever gained they have lost around 5 million supporters and so far at least there is precious little sign of these 5 million 'lost Tories' returning.

What you write above is true Independence Now. As anti-EU former Conservative Party Chairman Lord Tebbit has said fairly recently - the Conservatives have lost about 5 million votes since 1992 and the Labour Party at least four million. Most of the nine million people are now not voting.

23-09-2007, 11:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	"Labour MPs in key marginals urge Brown to call General Election now" MP's urge Gordon Brown to call snap election - Telegraph

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23-09-2007, 12:13 AM	#11 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,863	according to the BNP, UKIP cost the Cons around 30 seats in 2005. They make that claim here: British National Party -Labour's useful UKIP allies However if they have 'spun' this I'm open to be corrected.

23-09-2007, 12:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
ukpopdems Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 237	I like your point about Cons self-destructing. You could be right and this has been long forecast. Personally, I think I've been wrong in publicly forecasting this could never happen, as my experiences have come from Canadian Tories who were destroyed, but have come back. I've been talking to Peter Hitchens who is a firm believer in 'The Death of The Tories'. I thought he was mad, but now, I don't know, he might be right and it'll be me making the apology.