FEDs English Parliament policy

Danny · 12-05-2008, 12:23 PM

The (FEDs) English Democrats Party) current policy in my veiw is both confusing and dishonest.Its a bit like hookey pookey one foot in the Union and one foot out.They want an English parliament in a federal UK would it work.??? would it break the Union before it even got up and running.??.Are the FEDs being honest is there real policy really Independence for England but are they so split on there own policy they cant sell it to there rank and file members or to the General members of the public.???Debate please

interceptor470 · 12-05-2008, 01:03 PM

Richard the Lionheart · 12-05-2008, 02:12 PM

How does an organisation sell to the public the concept of an English parliament based on the Scottish model? The Scottish model is based on 129 representatives for 5 million people. An English parliament based on the Scottish model will presumably require 1290 representatives for 50 million people for a loss of 106 Westminster MPs, an overall increase of 1184 gravy train politicians.

Can't see the public going for that one.

cassie · 12-05-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart

How does an organisation sell to the public the concept of an English parliament based on the Scottish model? The Scottish model is based on 129 representatives for 5 million people. An English parliament based on the Scottish model will presumably require 1290 representatives for 50 million people for a loss of 106 Westminster MPs, an overall increase of 1184 gravy train politicians.

Can't see the public going for that one.

Oh Richard! You can do so much better than this! No, I'm not being at all sarky.

You know as well as I do that "an English parliament based on the Scottish model" doesn't automatically mean literally! You have a valid point about the number of MSPs - I've made it meself on a number of occasions - but the composition an English Parliament can be different. Indeed, I wouldn't want an English Parliament to be accommodated in the kind of 'bughutch' they expended £400million erecting in Holyrood! The only thing missing is a tartan fringe. Also, an English Parliament should have no less powers but, in reality, could have greater powers.

If you're going down this line, perhaps you ought to specify similar details about the parliament you envisage for an independent England, then everyone can have fun nit picking about those details.

------------------------------------

Andrew Constantine · 12-05-2008, 05:41 PM

Danny

"When I was an ED" ... I used to get cross with those who said that if the English Parliament was revived, then its importance would automatically de-stabalise the Union.

I think now that I was wrong then, and I now do agree with the proposition that an English parliament and a federal UK are basically incompatible.

To support my changed view, if I were a member of an English Parliament (yes, please to both) and, say, voted in a majority against another Iraq, I would hate to see the Scots or Welsh in a federal Parliament somehow voting with a minority of English federal MPs to take us to another Iraq war. I therefore think that an English Parliament would soon after its revival claim complete and total sovereignty in England - and quite rightly too.

If my new view is right, then there is perhaps a critical implication to consider ... in that an English Parliament might well decide that England is coming out of the EU unilaterally and we do not care what Scotland or Brussels thinks.

Where does this leave those (such as the FEDs) calling for an English Parliament within a federal UK?

In the long term, such a major policy platform is unsustainable and so I would not be surprised if the FEDs move to an independence policy some day. In their defence, they may well rationalise their present position by saying it is better to talk about just reforming the Union with an English Parliament (say, with the same powers as the present Scottish Parliament) as this causes "less alarm and opposition". It is a viewpoint which I personally no longer share, but it is one that is not totally without some merit.

What do you and others think?

Regards, Andrew

Northumbrian · 12-05-2008, 06:24 PM

English Parliament - more questions than answers.

How many MPs?
What powers will it have?
Where will it be?
How much will it cost, and how much will its MPs earn?
What will happen to the British Parliament?'

Still waiting for that 'White Paper'.

cassie · 12-05-2008, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northumbrian

English Parliament - more questions than answers.

How many MPs?
What powers will it have?
Where will it be?
How much will it cost, and how much will its MPs earn?
What will happen to the British Parliament?'

Still waiting for that 'White Paper'.

Yes, whether within or without the UK!

--------------------

cassie · 12-05-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine

Danny

"When I was an ED" ... I used to get cross with those who said that if the English Parliament was revived, then its importance would automatically de-stabalise the Union.

I think now that I was wrong then, and I now do agree with the proposition that an English parliament and a federal UK are basically incompatible.

To support my changed view, if I were a member of an English Parliament (yes, please to both) and, say, voted in a majority against another Iraq, I would hate to see the Scots or Welsh in a federal Parliament somehow voting with a minority of English federal MPs to take us to another Iraq war. I therefore think that an English Parliament would soon after its revival claim complete and total sovereignty in England - and quite rightly too.

If my new view is right, then there is perhaps a critical implication to consider ... in that an English Parliament might well decide that England is coming out of the EU unilaterally and we do not care what Scotland or Brussels thinks.

Where does this leave those (such as the FEDs) calling for an English Parliament within a federal UK?

In the long term, such a major policy platform is unsustainable and so I would not be surprised if the FEDs move to an independence policy some day. In their defence, they may well rationalise their present position by saying it is better to talk about just reforming the Union with an English Parliament (say, with the same powers as the present Scottish Parliament) as this causes "less alarm and opposition". It is a viewpoint which I personally no longer share, but it is one that is not totally without some merit.

What do you and others think?

Regards, Andrew

You might consider whether you are the bluntest knife in the box and how long it took you to reach your current position? How much longer will it take the generality of voters in England?

Sometimes the smartest cookies are not the best of leaders! You've jumped too far, too soon! I do not say this to be unkind but it's how I view the political scene.

-------------------------------

Andrew Constantine · 12-05-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

You might consider whether you are the bluntest knife in the box and how long it took you to reach your current position? How much longer will it take the generality of voters in England?

Sometimes the smartest cookies are not the best of leaders! You've jumped too far, too soon! I do not say this to be unkind but it's how I view the political scene.

-------------------------------

Cassie

I accept the point about our party being ahead of the curve.

But think of this: when I stood for the London Assembly this May, some 150,000 voters for the South West constituency would have seen my name, the party name and a party slogan about independence for the first time. They may well have thought "Who the heck is he, never heard of him nor that party - and are they serious about English independence?".

Well almost 3,000 of them still voted for me, and the next time they read about the Scottish Parliament, or Wendy Alexander calling for a referendum on Scottish independence etc, they they will be aware that there is a new and growing campaign for English Independence.

Political changes are occurring very fast in the UK. Salmond will probably time his governmemt sponsered referendum in 2010 or 2011 i.e. after the next UK General Election. Expect national (worldwide) media coverage of that. We plan by then to be the premier English nationalist party; we are already the leading campaign group for English Independence. So ahead of the curve now, but planning to catch the tide in 2010 or 2011.

But we have a lot of work to do - and we need more members and money.

cassie · 12-05-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine

Cassie

I accept the point about our party being ahead of the curve.

But think of this: when I stood for the London Assembly this May, some 150,000 voters for the South West constituency would have seen my name, the party name and a party slogan about independence for the first time. They may well have thought "Who the heck is he, never heard of him nor that party - and are they serious about English independence?".

Well almost 3,000 of them still voted for me, and the next time they read about the Scottish Parliament, or Wendy Alexander calling for a referendum on Scottish independence etc, they they will be aware that there is a new and growing campaign for English Independence.

Political changes are occurring very fast in the UK. Salmond will probably time his governmemt sponsered referendum in 2010 or 2011 i.e. after the next UK General Election. Expect national (worldwide) media coverage of that. We plan by then to be the premier English nationalist party; we are already the leading campaign group for English Independence. So ahead of the curve now, but planning to catch the tide in 2010 or 2011.

But we have a lot of work to do - and we need more members and money.

Yes Andrew, you are well ahead of the curve, which makes me wonder how successful you will be . . . in the short term at least.

As you know, I would not have advocated that the FEP should have come into existence, but you have, and I wish you well. With some 40% of the 38 million voters in England being uncommitted, there is plenty of room in this pool to swim around!

Unlike others, I do not see any great disadvantage to more than one English nationalist party at this stage of the struggle. Both EDP and FEP can pursue their own campaigns and raise the profile of England and her needs. Voters may wonder what is the difference between the two, and that should also be beneficial in keeping English nationalism in voters' consciousness.

Problems may arise when both parties gain 'critical mass' and start to put up candidates against each other, but that bridge can be left until it needs to be crossed.

In the meantime, surely both the EDP and FEP can unite in pressing for voters in England to be able to participate in ANY referendum about independence for Scotland and, better still, a referendum about her own future?

Onwards towards the real targets!!!

--------------------

12-05-2008, 12:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
Danny Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 311	FEDs English Parliament policy The (FEDs) English Democrats Party) current policy in my veiw is both confusing and dishonest.Its a bit like hookey pookey one foot in the Union and one foot out.They want an English parliament in a federal UK would it work.??? would it break the Union before it even got up and running.??.Are the FEDs being honest is there real policy really Independence for England but are they so split on there own policy they cant sell it to there rank and file members or to the General members of the public.???Debate please

12-05-2008, 02:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Richard the Lionheart Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 502 Party: Free England Party	How does an organisation sell to the public the concept of an English parliament based on the Scottish model? The Scottish model is based on 129 representatives for 5 million people. An English parliament based on the Scottish model will presumably require 1290 representatives for 50 million people for a loss of 106 Westminster MPs, an overall increase of 1184 gravy train politicians. Can't see the public going for that one. __________________ The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

12-05-2008, 05:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
Andrew Constantine Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 790 Party: Free England Party	An English Parliament in a federal UK Danny "When I was an ED" ... I used to get cross with those who said that if the English Parliament was revived, then its importance would automatically de-stabalise the Union. I think now that I was wrong then, and I now do agree with the proposition that an English parliament and a federal UK are basically incompatible. To support my changed view, if I were a member of an English Parliament (yes, please to both) and, say, voted in a majority against another Iraq, I would hate to see the Scots or Welsh in a federal Parliament somehow voting with a minority of English federal MPs to take us to another Iraq war. I therefore think that an English Parliament would soon after its revival claim complete and total sovereignty in England - and quite rightly too. If my new view is right, then there is perhaps a critical implication to consider ... in that an English Parliament might well decide that England is coming out of the EU unilaterally and we do not care what Scotland or Brussels thinks. Where does this leave those (such as the FEDs) calling for an English Parliament within a federal UK? In the long term, such a major policy platform is unsustainable and so I would not be surprised if the FEDs move to an independence policy some day. In their defence, they may well rationalise their present position by saying it is better to talk about just reforming the Union with an English Parliament (say, with the same powers as the present Scottish Parliament) as this causes "less alarm and opposition". It is a viewpoint which I personally no longer share, but it is one that is not totally without some merit. What do you and others think? Regards, Andrew __________________ Andrew Constantine Free England Party - Independence for England http://www.freeengland.com http://freeengland.blogspot.com Signatory to The English Claim of Right http://englishclaimofright.com

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12-05-2008, 01:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
interceptor470 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grimsby Posts: 46 Party: English Democrats

12-05-2008, 06:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Northumbrian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England Posts: 789	English Parliament - more questions than answers. How many MPs? What powers will it have? Where will it be? How much will it cost, and how much will its MPs earn? What will happen to the British Parliament?' Still waiting for that 'White Paper'.