Northumbrian

Put it this way, the only way it would save money is if the British Parliament is reduced in size (logical) and if MPs in the new English Parliament would be prepared to take a pay cut, on the same lines as the Scottish Parliament MPs.

I'm sure they'll be queuing up for that!

BonnieDundee

Cassie please don't comment here, as a foreigner you have no right.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

BonnieDundee

How can the federal idea be rigid? There are many different ways it could be done.

It however would not work, with England's relative size and power, unless it severely weakened or basically removed the central gov'ts powers. Or, as I hope, regionalisation, not in the EU way but into ancient regions and counties, of the whole UK was done.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Richard the Lionheart

Your obsession with the union is quite clear, Britannist, to the point you will accept it in any form you can get it. I do not like your use of the term "the English part of the UK", it is demeaning. I think your post is an indication of your greater love of the union rather than England

And you still don't explain how a federal UK can be set up at no cost to the taxpayer.

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www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

Richard the Lionheart

Britannist, I am not criticising Cassie, he and I know each other personally and chat on the phone from time to time, we both have a good understanding of each other.

I support the creation of an English parliament, but the one I envisage is one that has more powers than you would like. I believe the English are perfectly capable of nationhood and self-government, without having to ask the neighbours round to look after us.

I have given you many reason elsewhere, how the union could be ended if people chose to end it, how the division would be conducted under international law, how an English state would be governed, the benefits of self-determination, yet you ignore all of this.

Remember Britannist, you are a supporter of a regime that has caused immeasurable damage to the people of this island. Your British government (from whatever party) has committed us to the EU, taken part in illegal wars, taxed its people to death, imposed mass immigration on us, the likes of which has never been seen in the history of these islands, allowed our green and pleasant land to disappear bit by bit, your British MPs from across the parties deny the English the right to a proper democracy. I could go on, but you should get the drift by now. Until we get the British out of England, we have no future. People like you are the barrier to the creation of a new England. You are too hung up on the past and the glories of a bygone age. Those days are gone Britannist, it's time you started living with the realities of the modern British state and what it has become.

__________________
The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party
www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

Britannist

For those who argue that the UK could not stay together as a federation because England would be the largest part of the federation I would just mention that the Russian Federation - of which Russia is clearly the largest part - manages to stay together.

Some people here argue for the following regarding proposals for the UK to become a federal state similar to Canada, Australia and/or Switzerland:

Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and England all having their own Parliaments with powers over almost everything except Defence, Foreign Affairs, tax and key economic decisions.It is proposed by some that the House of Commons would become the English Parliament and that the House of Lords would become the new national Parliament of the whole of the UK legislating on Defence, Foreign Affairs, tax and key economic decisions (i.e. on those matters not dealt with by the Parliaments of Northern Ireland, Wales, England and Scotland. I believe that this idea is supported by many in the English Democrat Party).

As for your reference, BonnieDundee (in the quote above), to central Government - my proposal that we move to the Swiss Referendum system would, if implemented, mean that some decisions would be made by the people of these islands in referendums (i.e. central Government's wish to keep this country in the EU could be overturned in a national referendum held across the UK and the British people might make other decisions through referendums too which, under our present system, would have been made by central Government).

Richard the Lionheart

Britannist, I accept you support a federal Britain system, but this is just a pipedream as opposed to a likely reality. As a supporter of such a system, one would expect you to have ready made arguments in support of your position. I have supported my position with a reasonable arguments and ways in which independence could be achieved. I have yet to read yours in support of a fedYooKay

In many of your posts you state that you would like to see England have a parliament with identical powers to that of Scotland, or a parliament to match the one in Scotland. Whatever way you put it, it is going to cost more money to operate, more politicians, and according to the "experts", could lead to the breakup of the union as they consider an EP would want to flex its muscles and not be tied down by the contraints of a small British parliament.

I would just like to ask, why do people not refer to GB or Britain any more? Everyone seems to use the term "UK". The "UK" is not a country or a state, it describes a style. We don't say "FR" or federal republic when we refer to Germany, neither do we say "PR" or peoples republic when we speak about China. Is it because UK sound more cool and hip? UKOK

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The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party
www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

Britannist

Your obsession with wanting to break up the UK - regardless of any damage it might do to England (or to the other parts of the UK Union) is clear. You will dismiss any and all logical arguments for England remaining a part of this great Union and you have consistently failed to address the huge security implications for England (which I have brought up before) if Scotland and/or Wales quit the UK; stayed in the EU and let EU troops (from the EU military wing now under construction) open bases next to the border with England.

You probably haven't thought that far ahead have you Richard (i.e you have not looked in detail at the scenario of the UK partly or completely breaking up and of the security implications of it)? We must hope that our UK Union can remain together with all the peoples of these islands defended by one single British armed forces covering all of Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland/Ulster and England.

As I have pointed out in other threads before now Richard - I do not accept the present constitutional position regarding the UK (i.e. I oppose the UK Government's determination to hold England and her people down and deny her equal status with Scotland within the UK Union). I am a supporter (like you) of calls for an English Parliament to be set up and have been criticised by one of two others on this forum for doing so. I am a UK Unionist but also a supporter of England getting a fair deal in the Union (i.e. constitutional and financial equality with Scotland within the UK). I have pointed out on the pages of this forum before now that if this Labour shower in power now do not give England her own Parliament then opposition to the UK in England (already at over 30% in opinion polls) will increase further and the UK could break up due to a lack of support for the UK Union in England.

What is demeaning about referring to the English part of the UK Union? It is no different from referring to the Californian part of the USA. I don't know what you are getting so worked up about. Is there going to be any occasion when you will not get all hot-under-the-collar by the initials 'UK' being mentioned?

If you had your way you would just abandon the people of Northern Ireland - the UK is their Union too and many Northern Irish people are partly or wholly of English origin. If you are pro-England you will defend such people and you will defend all those in the UK who seek to remain in Union with England.

It is time, Richard, that you stopped criticising people like me - who support the establishment of an English Parliament within the UK - and diverted your time and energy in arguing against those who support this anti-English UK Labour Government which wants to hold England and her people down. In other words, please visit a pro-Labour website and criticise them and not me - a person who has been campaigning for an English Parliament for longer than most people (including you, possibly).

Richard: You asked me to do this earlier in this thread and the way you worded your request made it sound like you were a teacher setting homework. Do you really believe I am going to spend time writing out an analysis of the cost of turning the UK into a federation - an analysis which you have decided to reject before it is even written?

Britannist

Of course the people of England are capable of nationhood and self-Government. After all, we achieved it before almost anyone else centuries ago.

We are now part of a UK Union with others in these islands a - a Union in which we are the largest part; in which all speak our language and in which all benefit from being defended by the same armed forces.

You seem to seem to be very anti-UK but not at all anti-EU. The EU poses a great threat to the freedom of the peoples of these islands but I can't remember one posting from you in which you have criticised the EU whose aim is to break our ancient nation of England up into mini-'regional' statelets controlled from Brussels.

Richard the Lionheart

I really don't understand this obsession with the EU military wing that you believe is going to be stationed in the British Isles if we leave the EU. This point has been addressed before, by me and others, but you still insist on it.


You should consider the growing trends. We in England are now more often than not referring to ourselves as English rather than British, and people will eventuall require a government to reflect that sentiment. As you say almost a third support independence and is on the rise. You should also accept that your fellow British unionists in the Conservative party will not give England the same deal as Scotland. We are faced with years upon years of inequality for the English.

Is it not easier to say just "England"? or are you like your fellow unionist Gordon Brown, afraid to utter the word?

I grew up in Kilburn in the 70s when the troubles began, and I have heard the bombs go off and seen the violence in the streets at closing time. Yes, the troubles in NI brought onto the streets where I lived in London. No one says they have to leave the union if England leaves. Similarly, we should not be forced to stay in a union for the sake of others.

How often do you go to parliament square rallies, I've been on loads, and many members of the CEP know who I am. I've confronted our so-called leaders who deny England a democracy, and also argued on live TV with our PM on the issue of inequality. Were you at the J4E march last year? Were you at the Future of England Conference, or are you just someone who posts on the internet rather than someone who takes direct action? Just what is YOUR contribution to the EP issue?

I believe you are incapable of putting forward an analysis, otherwise you would have done so by now, rather than continually avoiding the issue.

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The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party
www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England