The Real Scottish Question!

ANGLO-STAFFS · 07-05-2008, 10:17 AM

I believe in English Independence, but I also think that a vote on Scottish independence could be restricted to Scotland if the right questions were posed. ie there would be two questions but only one vote.

"Should Scotland become an independent country?"

"Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom but with all four Nations treated equally by central government?"

If the answer is independence then the wheels can be put into motion.

If they chose the second then the Barnett **** would be removed and any freebies that the SNP government want to hand out would have to be financed by Scotttish taxpayers.

It is not a perfect answer but it would make me feel better.

Richard the Lionheart · 07-05-2008, 10:29 AM

The problem with that is the second part of the second question, "but with all four Nations treated equally by central government". It shouldn't be the Scottish people that get to decide this, but the WHOLE of the union.

cassie · 08-05-2008, 01:10 PM

__________________________________

I suspect that, in common with many others, ANGLO-STAFFS is confusing the role of referenda with that of Parliament. Usually, referenda are a means of allowing voters to record collective OPINIONS about particular issues. Any action taken subsequently - if at all - is taken by Parliament which has the powers to do so!

The benefit (or perhaps disadvantage) of a referendum on a particular single issue is that enables Parliament to make decisions in the knowledge of how voters have reacted to the question posed. Of course, the Labour Government did not want to hear what British (ie English) voters had to say about the Lisbon Treaty, and so, aided and abetted by the Lib Dems, contrived to avoid discovering that; thus Gordon Brown can pretend that most voters agree with him and his government.

Similarly, the 8% of voters in Scotland prefer to deal with things on the professed basis of the 'equality of nations'. The problems with that are: (1) Scotland is not really the equal of England and, in any event, (2) Scots will not afford even parity to the English [witness the absence of devolved government for England].

Scots have peddled the 'equal nations' approach for decades as a way of circumventing the fact that the population of England is ten times that of Scotland - an important factor in a democracy aspiring to 'one man, one vote'! In conjunction with that, they have promoted the idea that only Scots should be involved in any way about Scotland, its current interests and its future. Contrast this with their conduct in respect of England where persistent and widespread interference has been the order of the day.

At this stage, I would not be too prescriptive about the questions to be posed in referenda, because I seek to establish the principle that all voters in the UK should participate in any referenda about proposed constitutional changes. To continue with present practices is not only unfair and undemocratic but they, themselves, will eventually be the catalyst for the dissolution of the UK if they are not changed.

_________________________

Danny · 08-05-2008, 05:28 PM

Its looks very much as things stand that Scotland will vote on wether they want Independence or not over the next year or so given comments made today and yesterday.I think however if such a vote did happen I think the people of scotland at present would vote to stay in the UK.

Richard the Lionheart · 08-05-2008, 05:31 PM

I believe that the English should join together to ensure we get a say too, regardless of whether people support independence or not. I believe and hope there will be outrage from the rest of the union if the Scots alone are allowed to decide the fate of us all.

Danny · 08-05-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart

I believe that the English should join together to ensure we get a say too, regardless of whether people support independence or not. I believe and hope there will be outrage from the rest of the union if the Scots alone are allowed to decide the fate of us all.

I agree Richard with your comments above the DEBATE wether the vote takes place next year or 2010 is underway in scotland.Its going to effect us all wether people support the Union or not.It surly cannot be right that England stands on the sidelines as the Scottish parliament battles it out on this very Important matter.We must be allowed our say on the matter

Smidgey · 08-05-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart

I believe that the English should join together to ensure we get a say too, regardless of whether people support independence or not. I believe and hope there will be outrage from the rest of the union if the Scots alone are allowed to decide the fate of us all.

What happens if one part of the UK says no and another part says yes?

Northumbrian · 08-05-2008, 06:18 PM

If a part of the UK votes for independence then it must be so.

Richard the Lionheart · 08-05-2008, 06:22 PM

Whoever wants to leave can leave, no one should be forced to stay if they don't want to.

Smidgey · 08-05-2008, 06:24 PM

Okay, sorry. I didn't quite understand what you mean, but now I do.

07-05-2008, 10:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
ANGLO-STAFFS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 506	The Real Scottish Question! I believe in English Independence, but I also think that a vote on Scottish independence could be restricted to Scotland if the right questions were posed. ie there would be two questions but only one vote. "Should Scotland become an independent country?" "Should Scotland remain in the United Kingdom but with all four Nations treated equally by central government?" If the answer is independence then the wheels can be put into motion. If they chose the second then the Barnett **** would be removed and any freebies that the SNP government want to hand out would have to be financed by Scotttish taxpayers. It is not a perfect answer but it would make me feel better.

07-05-2008, 10:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Richard the Lionheart Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 515 Party: Free England Party	The problem with that is the second part of the second question, "but with all four Nations treated equally by central government". It shouldn't be the Scottish people that get to decide this, but the WHOLE of the union. __________________ The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

08-05-2008, 05:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
Richard the Lionheart Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 515 Party: Free England Party	I believe that the English should join together to ensure we get a say too, regardless of whether people support independence or not. I believe and hope there will be outrage from the rest of the union if the Scots alone are allowed to decide the fate of us all. __________________ The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

08-05-2008, 06:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
Northumbrian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England Posts: 836	If a part of the UK votes for independence then it must be so. Last edited by Northumbrian; 08-05-2008 at 06:19 PM. Reason: grammar

08-05-2008, 06:22 PM	#9 (permalink)
Richard the Lionheart Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 515 Party: Free England Party	Whoever wants to leave can leave, no one should be forced to stay if they don't want to. __________________ The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

08-05-2008, 01:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
cassie Uber Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,292	__________________________________ I suspect that, in common with many others, ANGLO-STAFFS is confusing the role of referenda with that of Parliament. Usually, referenda are a means of allowing voters to record collective OPINIONS about particular issues. Any action taken subsequently - if at all - is taken by Parliament which has the powers to do so! The benefit (or perhaps disadvantage) of a referendum on a particular single issue is that enables Parliament to make decisions in the knowledge of how voters have reacted to the question posed. Of course, the Labour Government did not want to hear what British (ie English) voters had to say about the Lisbon Treaty, and so, aided and abetted by the Lib Dems, contrived to avoid discovering that; thus Gordon Brown can pretend that most voters agree with him and his government. Similarly, the 8% of voters in Scotland prefer to deal with things on the professed basis of the 'equality of nations'. The problems with that are: (1) Scotland is not really the equal of England and, in any event, (2) Scots will not afford even parity to the English [witness the absence of devolved government for England]. Scots have peddled the 'equal nations' approach for decades as a way of circumventing the fact that the population of England is ten times that of Scotland - an important factor in a democracy aspiring to 'one man, one vote'! In conjunction with that, they have promoted the idea that only Scots should be involved in any way about Scotland, its current interests and its future. Contrast this with their conduct in respect of England where persistent and widespread interference has been the order of the day. At this stage, I would not be too prescriptive about the questions to be posed in referenda, because I seek to establish the principle that all voters in the UK should participate in any referenda about proposed constitutional changes. To continue with present practices is not only unfair and undemocratic but they, themselves, will eventually be the catalyst for the dissolution of the UK if they are not changed. _________________________

08-05-2008, 05:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Danny Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 343	Its looks very much as things stand that Scotland will vote on wether they want Independence or not over the next year or so given comments made today and yesterday.I think however if such a vote did happen I think the people of scotland at present would vote to stay in the UK.

08-05-2008, 06:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Smidgey Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,094 Party: Libertarian Party	Okay, sorry. I didn't quite understand what you mean, but now I do. __________________ How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might! -Georg Friedrich Händel

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