Reply With QuoteBetter to respond to my points - or say nothing if your argument has been defeated.Originally Posted by mkpdavies
Here, I have some pets for you.
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Um? M3, I was being sarcastic you know! (Perhaps I should have used an icon to make it clearer I was being sarky?) Tories signthe European Communities Act, The Single Market Act and Maastrict. How the hell can anyone believe they are Eurosceptics?
The last European elections of 2004 was the best opportunity to change our relationship with the EU when UKIP won 12 seats. Unfortunately shortly thereafter UKIP's roof caught fire, and the momentum we won was frittered away on feuds and the leadership ensuring that no one who appeared more talented than they rise through the party ranks. Consequently at the following GE UKIP's vote was a about 2% of the national vote. Also some in the party seem content to be a Tory pressure group rather than a serious political party.
We shall see if UKIP stage a recovery in this years Euros. But even if they do I don't think that will help as I believe UKIP's leadership problems will remain. Currently I don't see a Eurosceptic party party being in any position to alter our relationship with the EU at the moment.
I think the nations best hope is that the Tories die off as a major political party, to be replaced by an amalgam of various parties such as UKIP, EDs and one or two others. As to time frame I'd say 2 GEs at least, so a further ten years?
"There's no way to rule innocent men.
The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."~ Ayn Rand.
Better to respond to my points - or say nothing if your argument has been defeated.Here, I have some pets for you.
These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Thomas Paine, The Crisis
What points? I didn't see any.
mkpdavies no longer posts on this forum
Sorry I missed your sarcasm - I am not suggesting that the Tories are to be trusted, however, I do believe they do have a eurosceptic element which keeps them taking the kind of steps Lib/Lab would take - absolutely commitment to the project. The point I am making, for the GE, is that getting rid of Labour and giving the Tories the best working majority possible is the best option at present.
I would like to see a eurosceptic party change or be formed that does/could have broad appeal - but that is not the case at present.
These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Thomas Paine, The Crisis
I made it clearer to Z.
I am not suggesting that the Tories are to be trusted, however, I do believe they do have a eurosceptic element which keeps them taking the kind of steps Lib/Lab would take - absolutely commitment to the project. The point I am making, for the GE, is that getting rid of Labour and giving the Tories the best working majority possible is the best option at present.
These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Thomas Paine, The Crisis
I disagree. You are replacing like for like. No improvement, the same old charade goes on. Surrender.
mkpdavies no longer posts on this forum
Gives the eurosceptics a chance to stand back and come up with a better solution - just going forward for the sake of it is unlikely to reach a goal as complex as this.
These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Thomas Paine, The Crisis
I would prefer a Labour victory than Tories. (They are 2 sides of the same coin, and yes I detest Labour)
The CONservative party needs to be destroyed and rebuilt with all the europhiles gone.
Self preservation is part of an animal's instinct that demands that the organism survives
A reasonable wish, but just now we need them to stop us from being swallowed up by a EU superstate. Eurosceptics should be able to build a party of their own - if they kept in mind what is important.
These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Thomas Paine, The Crisis
Strange that, Mr Orange, I was just thinking that if we all voted Labour at the next General Election then the Tories would have to sit down for a real think. The Mega Nuclear option if you wish.
M3, no offence meant, but you are quite naive. Power corrupts absolutely, and with the powers that our government and the EU has at their fingertips they are not going to allow us to thwart the setting up of their little empire.
Do you really think that Ganley is any different from the present crowd?
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