Thread: The Hour is Getting Late.

Originally Posted by Millennium3

It is safe living in fantasy land decrying everything that does not fit with your personal model.............
Give me your best estimate as to when a eurosceptic party could be in a position to change our relationship with the EU.

Um? M3, I was being sarcastic you know! (Perhaps I should have used an icon to make it clearer I was being sarky?) Tories signthe European Communities Act, The Single Market Act and Maastrict. How the hell can anyone believe they are Eurosceptics?

The last European elections of 2004 was the best opportunity to change our relationship with the EU when UKIP won 12 seats. Unfortunately shortly thereafter UKIP's roof caught fire, and the momentum we won was frittered away on feuds and the leadership ensuring that no one who appeared more talented than they rise through the party ranks. Consequently at the following GE UKIP's vote was a about 2% of the national vote. Also some in the party seem content to be a Tory pressure group rather than a serious political party.

We shall see if UKIP stage a recovery in this years Euros. But even if they do I don't think that will help as I believe UKIP's leadership problems will remain. Currently I don't see a Eurosceptic party party being in any position to alter our relationship with the EU at the moment.

I think the nations best hope is that the Tories die off as a major political party, to be replaced by an amalgam of various parties such as UKIP, EDs and one or two others. As to time frame I'd say 2 GEs at least, so a further ten years?

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Here, I have some pets for you.

Better to respond to my points - or say nothing if your argument has been defeated.

Originally Posted by Millennium3

Better to respond to my points - or say nothing if your argument has been defeated.

What points? I didn't see any.

Originally Posted by Zak64

Um? M3, I was being sarcastic you know! (Perhaps I should have used an icon to make it clearer I was being sarky?) Tories signthe European Communities Act, The Single Market Act and Maastrict. How the hell can anyone believe they are Eurosceptics?

The last European elections of 2004 was the best opportunity to change our relationship with the EU when UKIP won 12 seats. Unfortunately shortly thereafter UKIP's roof caught fire, and the momentum we won was frittered away on feuds and the leadership ensuring that no one who appeared more talented than they rise through the party ranks. Consequently at the following GE UKIP's vote was a about 2% of the national vote. Also some in the party seem content to be a Tory pressure group rather than a serious political party.

We shall see if UKIP stage a recovery in this years Euros. But even if they do I don't think that will help as I believe UKIP's leadership problems will remain. Currently I don't see a Eurosceptic party party being in any position to alter our relationship with the EU at the moment.

I think the nations best hope is that the Tories die off as a major political party, to be replaced by an amalgam of various parties such as UKIP, EDs and one or two others. As to time frame I'd say 2 GEs at least, so a further ten years?

Sorry I missed your sarcasm - I am not suggesting that the Tories are to be trusted, however, I do believe they do have a eurosceptic element which keeps them taking the kind of steps Lib/Lab would take - absolutely commitment to the project. The point I am making, for the GE, is that getting rid of Labour and giving the Tories the best working majority possible is the best option at present.

I would like to see a eurosceptic party change or be formed that does/could have broad appeal - but that is not the case at present.

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

What points? I didn't see any.

I made it clearer to Z.

I am not suggesting that the Tories are to be trusted, however, I do believe they do have a eurosceptic element which keeps them taking the kind of steps Lib/Lab would take - absolutely commitment to the project. The point I am making, for the GE, is that getting rid of Labour and giving the Tories the best working majority possible is the best option at present.

Originally Posted by Millennium3

I made it clearer to Z.

I am not suggesting that the Tories are to be trusted, however, I do believe they do have a eurosceptic element which keeps them taking the kind of steps Lib/Lab would take - absolutely commitment to the project. The point I am making, for the GE, is that getting rid of Labour and giving the Tories the best working majority possible is the best option at present.

I disagree. You are replacing like for like. No improvement, the same old charade goes on. Surrender.

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I disagree. You are replacing like for like. No improvement, the same old charade goes on. Surrender.

Gives the eurosceptics a chance to stand back and come up with a better solution - just going forward for the sake of it is unlikely to reach a goal as complex as this.

I would prefer a Labour victory than Tories. (They are 2 sides of the same coin, and yes I detest Labour)

The CONservative party needs to be destroyed and rebuilt with all the europhiles gone.

Originally Posted by Mr Orange

I would prefer a Labour victory than Tories. (They are 2 sides of the same coin, and yes I detest Labour)

The CONservative party needs to be destroyed and rebuilt with all the europhiles gone.

A reasonable wish, but just now we need them to stop us from being swallowed up by a EU superstate. Eurosceptics should be able to build a party of their own - if they kept in mind what is important.