youcanhandlethetruth

By the way before you respond I concede I meant evidence, not necessarily facts - though I suspect there are plenty of facts in there.

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

Hartlepool

chikrodah, I agree on most of what you say here,however,I will say that before I have finished reading a DN post I am in antisipation waiting for yourself or Aardvark to post a response so to speak.
This makes it seem as if DN is to be immediately denounced for whatever is in his posts.
I think he has,in the past posted some good stuff for us to use in our cause,but sitting here on the sidelines it gets a bit boring with his repetative style.
This,of course will not be offputting for those viewing it for the first time.
Anyway,I believe that if he has info on someone regarding paedophilia then he should go out of his way to report it and assist the authorities with the apprehension of the culprit(s).
Anyway,I am not making a complaint about anything,perhaps I need to take more care in how I answer posts and not be so blunt or direct in future.

Aardvark,thanks for the generous offer but will have to refuse as I'm unfit to travel anywhere at the moment.
I have no truck with DN posts in general and none at all with yourself and chikrodah,maybe we can all have a pint sometime,and analyse the hell out of each others points of view on the whole of the EU carnival parade.

youcanhandlethetruth

Hartlepool your comment:

"Anyway,I believe that if he has info on someone regarding paedophilia then he should go out of his way to report it and assist the authorities with the apprehension of the culprit(s)."

You point sounds reasonable, but come on let's live in the real world here...

What do you think would happen if DN is in fact actually right(as I suspect he may be) ?
If the "authorities" are involved in it, how likely are they to do anything about it, and what thanks is DN going to get for sticking his neck out ?

I'm not saying it's true, and I agree in a fair and honest society the proper channels should be used, but do we live in a fair and honest society ?
I don't think we do.

It could well be that we don't realize how incredibly sick these individuals are, so let's not just assume everything in necessarily fine and dandy.

If you find it hard to believe it could be possible, just look at the Catholic Church or Dyncorp(see last link)
I've heard from talkshows etc you can't get to be a top neo-con republican if you're NOT a child molester.

Consider these articles too:

Dyncorp and Halliburton Sex Slave Scandal Won't Go Away

U.S. stalls on human trafficking -- chicagotribune.com

Representative Cynthia McKinney Grills Rumsfeld On Dyncorp Sex Rings, Missing Pentagon Trillions & 9/11 Wargames

Watch the video from the last link !

I wonder if any of us know how sick things really are at the top of the ladder, but let's not fool ourselves into some imaginary vision of "British justice" in the current climate of EU control which may lead to the extinction of "trial by jury" and the introduction of kangaroo courts.

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

Aardvark

H,

Actually I took some time off from the forum recently, but I came back in when I saw some of the things being said that I know to be wrong. I have got to the stage that I cannot believe people who make up stories about me that I can demonstrably prove to be untrue (hence the offer to you and others to visit me and see how I live - sorry you can't make it as you would be very surprised).

DN is making up stories about me that are rubbish. I won't say libellous as most right thinking people would think it was a good thing to be employed by the FCO and indeed they do offer jobs that I would like to do, but from which I am currently excluded by dint of lack of specific ticks in the box (don't speak enough Russian). twizzel likewise has invented a job for me that I do not have. aarable is convinced I am a member of the Illuminati and has told lots of people that I am; this is patently absurd as far as I am concerned, but it's all about the 'big lie'.

Until Noakes, Burgess and Barnby stop making up stories about me that I know to be completely untrue I have no real reason to believe a word that they say. If DN accepts that actually we are all on the same side, but come at the problem from different angles then that would be okay, but he doesn't. DN attacks anybody on this forum who disagrees with him and a few months ago he was telling people to leave the forum because they didn't agree with his point of view.

I know we will disagree on all sorts of things, but that is the nature of political debate. I want to belong to a movement that is credible in the eyes of the electorate as that is the only way to achieve power. That means putting some of the more obscure and extreme ideas on the backburner and even dropping them altogether. It means changing tack on other issues.

Firstly we have to stop distractions such as the 'treason' charges. I would guess that that has won no votes and has alienated a lot of people. The information gathered by Dave Barnby makes the basis of a ripping yarn and should be converted into a good book (remember the popularity of 'None Dare Call it Conspiracy' in the mid-70s), but it will not get us elected.

Secondly we should attack, if that is the word, Common Purpose not as a 'conspiracy', but as a misuse of public funds by a Labour front organisation. Given the swing against Labour at the moment and the unpopularity of Brown/Darling there is a genuine opportunity, if someone can pull the threads together, to present a compelling case that the Tories might latch on to and use to good effect. We don't have to do the dirty work, but can provide the material.

Thirdly, we have to think about elections, and only elections. There will be another General Election for the UK Parliament. Chikrodah has provided the links to the treaty sections to show that it is allowed. I don't think even the EU would move that quickly to close it down even if that was the intention in the long run (I'll keep an open mind on 5, 10 or 15 years hence). People who talk about hanging Parliamentarians or machine gunning them have no place in the electoral process. It's pie in the sky and only makes us look like idiots.

Fourthly, in order to be electable we have to consider what the electorate are concerned about. The EU is still too far down the list of most people's priorities to win the election. We have to have policies that are credible, costed and appeal to the larger groups of voters. Sometimes we have to support what the voters want in order to get to the stage that we can deliver our part of a collective agenda. At the moment we are staring at another 2-3% result and nobody is trying to convince a single voter to change. We are still choosing candidates that will not appeal to the man in the street and who, if they even bother to canvass, will have a difficult time on the doorstep. You've probably canvassed and know what it's like. I got one definite vote for opposing regional assemblies and dozens for promising to fight a footpath issue and increase the number of doggy bins. In 2006 I got votes for getting a drainage ditch cleared. The Illuminati, treason, the 1975referendum (have to be over 50 to have voted in it), EU expansion, Brussels etc don't feature on the electorate's radar. Mention the Bilderbergers (a word which most people on this forum keep spelling wrongly) and you get a polite but firm slam of the door.

Credibility is the watchword.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

youcanhandlethetruth

Said in true mainstream politico style.
How can the electoral process be viable when the parliamentary process has been hijacked ? Why aren't you arguing that instead ?

I take your point but obviously you're not getting their attention well enough.
If you had looked into it you would have plenty of ammunition.
If you indeed are anti-EU (which I'm having trouble believing) then why not adopt a quick hit list like DN has done "Destroying Britain's economy" and pointing out the possible consequences of EU control.
If you can make people sit up and take notice you'll have a different and much bigger agenda on which to fight, otherwise you'll never win playing the mainstream at their own game (or is that what you want ?)

No YOU are spelling it wrong and the official guest list proves it:
http://www.infowars.com/images2/nwo/...st_page_02.jpg

No wonder you get the door slammed in your face if that's a sign of your credibility.

Anyway at least you could find the actual documents showing the attendees if you're going to mention Bilderberg(which I doubt you have)

In true politician style you're claiming people to trust you when the your credibility looks dubious.

Who are you and what DO you stand for ?

I bet you and chikrodah have probably hijacked UKIP - that's normally what happens to new political parties.

You've already shown yourself to be uncredible.

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

Aardvark

...myself included. That was a typo (now corrected) as I seem to have got it right everywhere else. I'll use the feeble excuse that I am very tired and didn't proof read. I think you'll find 99.9% of my spelling and grammar is correct if you read back through my posts. BTW it must be one of the most misspelt words as 'bilderburg' got 19,600 responses on Google!!!!

I never mention Bilderberg on the doorstep, but I know of men who do.

To answer you, the attendees vary from year to year and I have looked at some of the lists, for what it is worth. None of the original Bilderbergers now attend as they are virtually all dead. I'm not sure what we're supposed to do about them. I first heard of them when I was 17 and despite masses of discussion not one person opposed to the Bilderbergers has achieved diddly squat in the last 34 years that I know of.

I don't see how 2 people in different areas of the country can hijack a political party. That's not credible.

Who are you and what do you stand for? I'm easy to identify and what I stand for is easy to find, although my basic website does need to be updated. I think you can find on the net, if you look hard enough, about 800 references to me either through Google or through archive material on other websites (newsquest Oxford, SW Oxon NHS PCT, Carterton Town Council, West Oxon DC etc as well as links to this and other fora, websites and chat groups). There are over 2000 posts on this forum, most of which I don't think are contradictory although my views change in response to well founded arguments or corrections.

I don't think I lack credibility. I try to get things right and if corrected I accept the corrections gracefully. We are all learning after all. I am also critical of arguments that are unsupported by facts or where the person refers me only to his own material and not to source material. In my work I have to be able to prove everything I report on; I would expect it of others where they are seeking to change the world.

Yes I am critical of 3 posters in particular. They make up stories about me. If they are prepared to invent things about me to suit their purposes then I assume that everything else they say lacks authority. Why would people tell the truth about everything else they write in the whole world, but make up ludicrous stories about me? That's not credible.

YCHTT, Do you think I am an asset of the FCO paid to attack people on this forum? Do you think I work for a government department in Northampton? Do you think I am a trained disinformation specialist? Do you think I am am a member of the Illuminati (and thereby possibly a lizard in the eyes of some people at Conspiracy.con)? Do you think I am a traitor? Do you think I am guilty of misprision of treason? You can come and visit me if you like. I can show you my income streams and prove that I am none of the things I am accused of, although you will say that I have a very good cover.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

youcanhandlethetruth

Aardvark,

All I know is that most typos that are made, come from accidentally typing the adjacent letter on the keyboard.

But not in your case - your typo came from making a specific reference to the fact that it was mis-spelt !!!!!!

I can't say I've ever seen that before and it looks very suspicious.

(Whilst my spelling of "becasue" on another thread that you pointed out was an obvious typo)

I admit I really don't know anything about you at all.
But the fact I am suspicious of you is due to your defensive manner and your obvious mistake more than anything you have discussed in depth.
I haven't actually examined the threads in any detail at all - maybe I should.

You say:
"I'm easy to identify and what I stand for is easy to find"

Then can you actually tell me please ?
You say I can visit you and have a website, but you have posted no personal info at all.

In answer to your your point - there could well be 2 or many more individuals who could be paid as lower level agents to join or infiltrate political groups across the country - of course it's possible !

But to be totally honest you really don't sound anti-EU at all !
Do you have anything bad to say about the EU ?

When I asked you what you stood for, you spoke with typical authority about your wealth and connections, rather than your political opinions(which is what I really wanted).

Shouldn't you try to convince people ?
Wouldn't it be quite simple to if you wanted to ?
Most astute people can normally tell when a person is honest and trustworthy, but to be honest, you just don't sound it.

Here's another example why:

You say "They make up stories about me. If they are prepared to invent things about me to suit their purposes then I assume that everything else they say lacks authority. Why would people tell the truth about everything else they write in the whole world, but make up ludicrous stories about me? That's not credible."

Now you say that they are "prepared to invent", yet you are the first to try to omit blame from yourself.
Yet you cannot afford the same rule to others ?
You seem to be saying if one thing someone says is wrong, you can rule out everything else he says ? But not the same rule for yourself ?

It just doesn't ring true.....
A lot of other people obviously think you are fake and to be honest I can see why.

The same as they claim you are lying, you are saying they are inventing things.
However normally when people get attacked they prefer to defend themselves but instead you have come back with another character attack on the person that attacked you !

It is in line with the moralistic manner of a number of disinformation people who prefer to rely on character assasination of the opposition whilst talking themselves up, instead of pointing to hard facts to their own defence.

And the fact that you mention the "illuminati", is a normally a tactic used by disinformation people to try to discredit anyone who tries to expose people involved in corruption/infiltration as "conspiracy theorists" or nutcases who shouldn't be believed.

Now I'm not saying you are necessarily doing any/all of these things(I see you're a moderator), and I admit I could be wrong but you haven't done or said enough to convince me at all (yet).

Just my opinion.......

Please call me paranoid if you like.........

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP, Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

chikrodah

It's amazing, isn't it, how asking people to provide annotated footnotes or links in their articles can engender such passionate attacks on the requestee?

It's fascinating that, as soon as others state that UKIP or the eurosceptic movement as a whole should act in a professional manner, even if that means pet projects and beliefs are put away until UKIP gains sufficient MPs to influence the national government, those individuals are accused of being anti-eurosceptics.

It's also a symptom of the malaise that affects the eurosceptic movement. It's indicative of why so many of the main parties' branches are delighted that eurosceptics are leaving those parties. They're getting rid of their own 'fruitcakes and loonies' so that they can appear more professional.

H, I've no interest in attacking anybody. DN and others regularly attack me, Aardvark and anyone else who asks for more background to their posts and claim things that aren't true as fact. Very occasionally, I bite back. I'd be interested in a forum get together so that we can put names to faces. We'd probably all discover points of commonality that we could debate without resorting to name-calling.

YCHTT, you and I will never agree on certain theories, not because I don't give some of them at least some credence, but because I'm limited on the amount of time I can give to debate on this forum and I have to pick and choose what I read up on. I would not want to fully debate some of the subjects you are passionate on without being as well-read on those areas as I am on the subject of the EU. I did an Economics dissertation on Maastricht the year it was voted through, for example. I have been involved in the reports made re the 'new' (then) EU Accounting system, due to both my technical expertise in certain areas and my research skills. Those reports were heavily anti-EU and predicted accurately that the new accounting system would not assist in getting future budgets signed off by the Auditors. The EU wasted billions on that system. None of you have used the same passion you attach to your pet projects to attacking that waste.

Like many, I wanted UKIP to be a professional party. Part of me still does, part, like M3, wonders if the party we thought UKIP was will ever grow up enough to get into 21st century politics as an independent political force.

Aardvark

YCHTT, as I've already been outed on this forum many times I can tell you to Google "P|Paul Wesson". Go for UK only pages as my namesake in Canada is working on rewriting Einstein's Theory of Relativity (I kid you not) and piles of his astronomical research papers are published on line (read them if you like, but they are very complex). Vote Paul Wesson is not up to date as I don't have an election on at the moment.

SW Oxon PCT, where I was a director, no longer exists, but there might be archive material on the Oxfordshire PCT website. If you go to the Oxford and Oxfordshire news, sport and information updated throughout the day and search the archives by my name you should get about 70 references to me. I crop up all over the place and anybody who looks deeply enough would be able to tell me a lot about my life. You will see I was a UKIP candidate at the last GE and, if you've been following this forum long enough, you will know I used to sub-contract to Ashley Mote and am chasing him through the courts for monies he owes me.

I still have the original bundle of documents that I prepared when Mr Mote asked the SFO to investigate fraud in the EU (when he pays me what he owes he can have it back). I therefore know a lot more about the fine details than you might give me credit for; at least I've read an auditors report. I've also worked in Brussels for Mr Mote and know my way around the Parliament building.

I also know that when filing legal cases you don't go to a desk Sergeant with unsupported documentation. Ashley Mote, credit where credit is due, got a counsel's opinion from Leolin Price QC, got a UKIP supporting forensic accountant to check government figures, paid me to gather information from libraries, the Internet and other Eurosceptic MEPs in Brussels and, when all of the information was bundled and checked, went hand in glove with Marta Andreasen to meet the boss of the SFO. We had a press conference in Whitehall and we made a number of national newspapers. That is why I think Burgess is completely and utterly wrong not to adopt a similar tactic. I've fallen out with Ashley Mote big time, but on this point alone he was correct and he put his money (or rather the EU's money) where his mouth was. Had he not turned out to be a fraudster himself he would still have credibility for what he did, but it's been lost. Burgess will never get a proper legal opinion because he will be told he is wrong. Mote was told that there was a case by a well known QC and I think the SFO should have taken him more seriously, but then I did prepare the bundle.

When I was referring you to my 'wealth' I wanted to show you the lack of caused by the unmitigated disaster of my business collapse, followed by my wife dieing of cancer and leaving me as a single parent, followed by being made homeless twice. If I am indeed in the Illuminati (I didn't start referring to them; David Barnby called me Illuminati to my face in front of witnesses) then why am I so poor and, at the moment at least, totally without influence in public life?

Noakes has invented stories about me being an asset of the FCO and a disinformation specialist working in Northampton for some body or other, Burgess has invented a story about me having a job with the FCO and Barnby has been telling people in my presence, and no doubt elsewhere, that I am a member of the Illuminati (I'd never heard of it until he called me one). This is all drivel. Come to my house and I will prove it is drivel. Since Noakes, Barnby and Burgess are capable of confabulating to further their own ends in relation to me, then I believe they are capable of making up stories about other people to further their respective causes.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

PolishUser

Chikrodoah - you will be imprisoned in the EU if the LT is ratified. The LT says that an EU member state can separate itself from the EU only if 66% of other EU member states and most MEPs agree. Britain is the EU's principal cash cow. Continental member states nor Europhile MEPs won't agree.

__________________
A vote for the Labour Party or the SNP is a vote for the Argentine police state.