Seven deadly Lisbon Treaty clauses

Millennium3 · 12-04-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnoakes

My reply is as follows: (I have Macs and Linux)

The "leaving the EU two years after notification - by default" is rendered worthless as follows:

1. The European Council can extend the two years - no limit is given. And the people on the council will vote unanimously -that is why they are given their seat on the council in the first place.

2. There is unlikely to be a House of Commons in existence to ask if we can leave.
The six EU Constitutional Treaties "take primacy." A nation can only have one constitution, so that will be the EU's. And it makes no provision for elections to Westminster, which will probably close (on 5th May 2010).

2. If Westminster did exist, who would ask to withdraw? The party leaderships are bought and paid for by the EU. They implement EU policy, laws, regulations and treaties, not our wishes. They took us into the EU against our wishes in the first place. Why would they ever ask to withdraw?

3. Clause 188N(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU (the old Treaty of Rome) states that, after listening to the Commission and the EU High Representative, the EU council will decide whether or not to allow negotiations to open. So the QMV and 15/27 is, as always, merely there to deceive.

4. If we couldn't get out of the EU during the 36 years when we were half outside it, how the hell will we get out after 1.1.2009, when we will be imprisoned inside the dictatorship, with its police state controlling our every move?

Thanks - I take your point regarding why would those who got us in want to take us out. However, the majority who frequent this forum probably hope for a party which wants out, to be elected as the majority in the HofC [or hold the balance of power], so the question relates to how realistic is their hope of getting out legally, if this situation did occur? Your reply seems to suggest - not very!

Britannist · 12-04-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnoakes

If we couldn't get out of the EU during the 36 years when we were half outside it, how the hell will we get out after 1.1.2009, when we will be imprisoned inside the dictatorship, with its police state controlling our every move?

The nations swallowed up by the authoritarian communist Soviet Union police state (i.e. Ukraine, Baltic lands, Georgia, Turkmenistan and others) or those controlled by it (i.e. Poland, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and others) managed to break free from it - when it collapsed.

And collapse is what the EU is going to do at some point - just as the League of Nations, Yugoslavia, 'East' Germany, 'United' Arab Republic and others fell apart (virtually overnight in some cases).

Not that we cannot get out of the EU before it disintegrates - of course we can: through a referendum in the UK on the matter or by a simple majority in the House of Commons repealing the European Communities Act 1972.

Millennium3 · 13-04-2008, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

The nations swallowed up by the authoritarian communist Soviet Union police state (i.e. Ukraine, Baltic lands, Georgia, Turkmenistan and others) or those controlled by it (i.e. Poland, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary and others) managed to break free from it - when it collapsed.

Unfortunately this took some 70 years!

Quote:

And collapse is what the EU is going to do at some point - just as the League of Nations, Yugoslavia, 'East' Germany, 'United' Arab Republic and others fell apart (virtually overnight in some cases).

Yes, this will be the case, however, there can be no doubt that those who have planned and implemented the EU project have done so thoroughly and will no doubt continue to do so.

Quote:

Not that we cannot get out of the EU before it disintegrates - of course we can: through a referendum in the UK on the matter or by a simple majority in the House of Commons repealing the European Communities Act 1972.

With the EU the final arbiter, one assumes that they will wish to combine the military and police forces so that, in due course, these will be stationed far from their home nations. Once this happens they will be in a position to enforce the judgements of the EU courts. If that judgement deems a repeal of the ECA 1972 illegal, they will have the military and police presence to enforce their judgement. [Imagine Cornwall trying to break free from England].

What this does demonstrate is that the anti EU movement should work together so that a situation where the majority in the HofC wants out is achieved as quickly as possible - whilst the necessary force is still available to support the British parliament's will.

davidnoakes · 15-04-2008, 08:51 PM

Millenimu3, you are exactly right.

Brittainist, you still haven't understood the points.

Westminster is an EU puppet government, its leaders, of all three parties, controlled by and obediant to the EU.

They were told by the EU to cancel the referendum, and they ALWAYS do what they are told. The EU does not allow them to hold a referendum; there will NOT be a national referendum (- organise a local one).

Westminster will probably be abolished by the EU on 5th May 2010 - so how can it repeal anything when it won't exist?

And the Lisbon Treaty removes the last 20% of Westminsters powers on 1.1.2009 - 8 months away. It isn't going to repeal anything.

Catch up.

Unionist · 15-04-2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnoakes

Brittainist, you still haven't understood the points.

Westminster is an EU puppet government, its leaders, of all three parties, controlled by and obediant to the EU.

They were told by the EU to cancel the referendum, and they ALWAYS do what they are told. The EU does not allow them to hold a referendum; there will NOT be a national referendum (- organise a local one).

Westminster will probably be abolished by the EU on 5th May 2010 - so how can it repeal anything when it won't exist?

And the Lisbon Treaty removes the last 20% of Westminsters powers on 1.1.2009 - 8 months away. It isn't going to repeal anything.

Catch up.

You may disagree with Britannist but it is incredibly rude, not to mention arrogant, to chastise him for not being a member of your cult.

Britannist will probably be out campaigning in the general election in 2009. Will you?

Millennium3 · 15-04-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidnoakes

Millenimu3, you are exactly right.

Brittainist, you still haven't understood the points.

Westminster is an EU puppet government, its leaders, of all three parties, controlled by and obediant to the EU.

They were told by the EU to cancel the referendum, and they ALWAYS do what they are told. The EU does not allow them to hold a referendum; there will NOT be a national referendum (- organise a local one).

Westminster will probably be abolished by the EU on 5th May 2010 - so how can it repeal anything when it won't exist?

And the Lisbon Treaty removes the last 20% of Westminsters powers on 1.1.2009 - 8 months away. It isn't going to repeal anything.

Catch up.

Certainly the accounts of the Irish Referendum that have been leaked supports your view of the control exercised by the EU. However, I doubt if they will cancel Westminster - their will be lower level decisions to make. Also it is far better to have a puppet government to take the flak and removing Westminster would frighten the horses.

aarable · 15-04-2008, 09:31 PM

'Britannist will probably be out campaigning in the general election in 2009. Will you?'

Excellent intentions Britannist, but what's the point, unless you can guarantee a UKIP victory? The polical process is effectively dead.

Voting only encourages them.

I do, however, have some ideas on this - look at Eurofacts letters 7th March. But it relies upon Parliament continuing for a few more years, but as DN points out we cannot be sure of this.

youcanhandlethetruth · 15-04-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unionist

it is incredibly rude, not to mention arrogant, to chastise him for not being a member of your cult.

What a ridiculous statement.

You are saying Dn is being rude but you are quick to use the word "cult" on anyone that you don't agree with.

DN is the most realistic of everyone here - he tells it like it is, not some glorified image of "democracy".

Even if the EU wasn't the problem, UKIP would be demonized through the media to ensure they never got a sniff of power or any media coverage - just look at Ron Paul in America for evidence of that.

I like and respect Britannist a lot but I don't think he is being realistic in his
expectations of the political process.

But then again, it may be the only option available, unless anyone has got any other ideas ?

I've given mine already on other threads, but most people are too brainwashed to consider what I say as any realistic basis for real change.

Until we realize the political process has been hijacked by the media and the 3 main political parties, we will never get it back.

Unionist · 15-04-2008, 10:37 PM

My, I seem to have rattled your cage this evening, YCHTT.

It was rude to talk down to Britannist in that way and I stand by that statement.

As for who is being realistic, we will see when the next general election campaign comes around. Don't forget that David Noakes claimed that Gordon Brown was told by the EU that he couldn't have an election last year since they don't want a new parliament being elected. Since then we have had elections in several countries, notably Spain, Poland and Italy - three of the largest EU countries. But Noakes thinks that Westminster is going to be closed down and the EU doesn't want an election. Let's just wait and see about that, shall we?

Rebirth · 15-04-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unionist

But Noakes thinks that Westminster is going to be closed down and the EU doesn't want an election. Let's just wait and see about that, shall we?

And if he is right it will be to late.

15-04-2008, 08:51 PM	#104 (permalink)
davidnoakes Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 149	Reply to Millennium3 and Brittainist Millenimu3, you are exactly right. Brittainist, you still haven't understood the points. Westminster is an EU puppet government, its leaders, of all three parties, controlled by and obediant to the EU. They were told by the EU to cancel the referendum, and they ALWAYS do what they are told. The EU does not allow them to hold a referendum; there will NOT be a national referendum (- organise a local one). Westminster will probably be abolished by the EU on 5th May 2010 - so how can it repeal anything when it won't exist? And the Lisbon Treaty removes the last 20% of Westminsters powers on 1.1.2009 - 8 months away. It isn't going to repeal anything. Catch up. __________________ David Noakes. http://eutruth.org.uk 07974 437 097 drjnoakesdel@yahoo.co.uk (delete the letters del - I\'m trying to stop spam.)

15-04-2008, 09:31 PM	#107 (permalink)
aarable Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 109	What's the point? *'Britannist will probably be out campaigning in the general election in 2009. Will you?'* Excellent intentions Britannist, but what's the point, unless you can guarantee a UKIP victory? The polical process is effectively dead. Voting only encourages them. I do, however, have some ideas on this - look at Eurofacts letters 7th March. But it relies upon Parliament continuing for a few more years, but as DN points out we cannot be sure of this.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

15-04-2008, 10:37 PM	#109 (permalink)
Unionist Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,056	My, I seem to have rattled your cage this evening, YCHTT. It was rude to talk down to Britannist in that way and I stand by that statement. As for who is being realistic, we will see when the next general election campaign comes around. Don't forget that David Noakes claimed that Gordon Brown was told by the EU that he couldn't have an election last year since they don't want a new parliament being elected. Since then we have had elections in several countries, notably Spain, Poland and Italy - three of the largest EU countries. But Noakes thinks that Westminster is going to be closed down and the EU doesn't want an election. Let's just wait and see about that, shall we?