UKIP "a honeytrap to neutralise activists"

mkpdavies · 18-05-2007, 06:44 PM

Deal.

The first edition of

"The EU is a whore!" will be rolling off the Woking press tommorow.

I can only hope to have as much awesome impact as the heros that have gone before me.

Populist Lee · 18-05-2007, 06:45 PM

Substitute "Blog" for "newspaper" and you can see how silly the anti-EU movement is becoming.

davidnoakes · 22-05-2007, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyG

Fairly brutal assessment. No doubt there will be people who will argue with it.
If it is all true then UKIP deserves to be summarily wound up.

Yes, you are right, its unlikely our pro-EU MEP's and Regional Organisers will ever resign from the EU gravy train.

You do have the logical, if rather unpleasant, answer.

Instead of wasting time and money inside UKIP, people would be better fighting the EU directly from outside, visiting their MP's, councillors and journalists.

David Noakes.
http://eutruth.org.uk/campaigns.pdf

eublues · 22-05-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Instead of wasting time and money inside UKIP, people would be better fighting the EU directly from outside, visiting their MP's, councillors and journalists

How many MPs, councillors or journalists do you think you have you converted to an anti-EU stance as a result of your personal encounters with them?

mkpdavies · 22-05-2007, 02:52 PM

Our survey says

X

davidnoakes · 22-05-2007, 03:02 PM

It typically takes three visits if someone's going to change their minds. If they don't you move on to the next one.

I would say we've converted perhaps 20 councillors and three MP's personally. I accept that what people tell you is not what they always do, but we now know these people.

And more than that with the newspapers, with 100,000 readers a month, and the websites, with 40,000 visitors a year.

If UKIP had been doing that with its 29,500 members for five years we would already have won.

But UKIP's leaders won't allow it to fight the EU.

David Naokes.

stathan · 22-05-2007, 03:06 PM

And where would we now find the anti EU outbursts by these converted 20 councillors and 3 MPs in order to satisfy ourselves of the success of your campaign.

Or are they part of a secret underground organisation waiting for the codeword to rise up as one and unleash their combined fury on the unbelievers of this fair country?

andypandy · 22-05-2007, 07:36 PM

I think these tongue in cheek criticisms of David Noakes are more a case of shooting the messenger, rather than the message. Clearly, David has a passion for opposition to the EU, and yes he may believe in 'conspiracy theories', but to many outside of the anti-EU debate, ALL of UKIP and its ilk believe in fasehoods, conspiracies and down right lies about the precious EU.

The point is, and this may actually have not helped David, because of his obvious passion against the EU, the powers that be, whether within UKIP or externally, knew in their heart of hearts, that a certain Mr Noakes must NEVER become leader, on pain of his outright hostility to the continental dragon should ever be aired to the masses. I doubt if much of what he says has not already been said, hinted at, or at least thought, by many on this site.

I noticed that despite his statements of alleged fact, and I cannot claim to know one way or the other, that there is little cricticism of the actual points, rather as I said previously, more complaining of his motives.

In any other business, he would be called, amongst other things, a whistleblower.

mkpdavies · 22-05-2007, 07:39 PM

The only thing I don't like about David, is his my way or the highway attitude.

I think he's closer to the true nature of the EU than most, but his idea of shocking people with the truth simply doesn't work. People cower and run, rather than join you.

eublues · 22-05-2007, 07:56 PM

I think that most of us think that most of what David says is true.

A problem, however, is the bits that go beyond the 100% demonstrable and give opponents a reason to reject the rest. Another is that few people are receptive to his style of message.

David says that UKIP has been a waste of time. I would say that despite the disappointments we all know about, we can now see that UKIP has had a marked impact on how the public views the EU.

This has yet to be turned into willingness to vote out the europhiles when it matters, but is a real achievement.

18-05-2007, 06:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Deal. The first edition of "The EU is a whore!" will be rolling off the Woking press tommorow. I can only hope to have as much awesome impact as the heros that have gone before me. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

22-05-2007, 07:39 PM	#19 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	The only thing I don't like about David, is his my way or the highway attitude. I think he's closer to the true nature of the EU than most, but his idea of shocking people with the truth simply doesn't work. People cower and run, rather than join you. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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18-05-2007, 06:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Populist Lee Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,965	Substitute "Blog" for "newspaper" and you can see how silly the anti-EU movement is becoming.

22-05-2007, 02:52 PM	#15 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Our survey says X

22-05-2007, 03:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
davidnoakes Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 149	It typically takes three visits if someone's going to change their minds. If they don't you move on to the next one. I would say we've converted perhaps 20 councillors and three MP's personally. I accept that what people tell you is not what they always do, but we now know these people. And more than that with the newspapers, with 100,000 readers a month, and the websites, with 40,000 visitors a year. If UKIP had been doing that with its 29,500 members for five years we would already have won. But UKIP's leaders won't allow it to fight the EU. David Naokes.

22-05-2007, 03:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
stathan Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 396	And where would we now find the anti EU outbursts by these converted 20 councillors and 3 MPs in order to satisfy ourselves of the success of your campaign. Or are they part of a secret underground organisation waiting for the codeword to rise up as one and unleash their combined fury on the unbelievers of this fair country?

22-05-2007, 07:36 PM	#18 (permalink)
andypandy Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 880	I think these tongue in cheek criticisms of David Noakes are more a case of shooting the messenger, rather than the message. Clearly, David has a passion for opposition to the EU, and yes he may believe in 'conspiracy theories', but to many outside of the anti-EU debate, ALL of UKIP and its ilk believe in fasehoods, conspiracies and down right lies about the precious EU. The point is, and this may actually have not helped David, because of his obvious passion against the EU, the powers that be, whether within UKIP or externally, knew in their heart of hearts, that a certain Mr Noakes must NEVER become leader, on pain of his outright hostility to the continental dragon should ever be aired to the masses. I doubt if much of what he says has not already been said, hinted at, or at least thought, by many on this site. I noticed that despite his statements of alleged fact, and I cannot claim to know one way or the other, that there is little cricticism of the actual points, rather as I said previously, more complaining of his motives. In any other business, he would be called, amongst other things, a whistleblower.

22-05-2007, 07:56 PM	#20 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,005	I think that most of us think that most of what David says is true. A problem, however, is the bits that go beyond the 100% demonstrable and give opponents a reason to reject the rest. Another is that few people are receptive to his style of message. David says that UKIP has been a waste of time. I would say that despite the disappointments we all know about, we can now see that UKIP has had a marked impact on how the public views the EU. This has yet to be turned into willingness to vote out the europhiles when it matters, but is a real achievement.