mkpdavies

Yes I read that too.

Labour will back it, but maybe Brown will whip his lot up INTO phpbb_rebelling. The Tories will probably vote against it, accept their band of Europhiles such as Clarke. The Fib Dems will all vote for it.

So it will depend on Brown and how many of his rebels will join him. All the Blair haters will probably be there, Short etc.

Maybe Frank Field, Kate Hoey etc will join in too.

Could be interesting. Sadly I can see the Fibs and traitor-Cons helping them survive. Cameron should withdraw the whip on Clarke etc if they do! Now that would be a signal.

__________________
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My ignore list

Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

Angryjohn

Does anyone know when the vote is? I need to write to that Mark Oaten chap (local MP) as I know that there are some Lib Dems who are vehement in their dislike for the EU in its present incarnation.

Christina

I think it is good for the anti-EU cause.

I remember David Davis being asked on the Question Time debate, "What would happen if the rest of the EU won't agree to your plans?"

DD: " There would be a crisis"

I see the way out of the EU as being as follows.

Conservatives win the General Election.

Conservatives try to bring about their reforms.

EU resists and we have a crisis.

Then, and only then, will EU withdrawal become so popular that people will actually vote for it.

Angryjohn

Christina, I hope that happens. I really do. I may have a Lib Dem background but I would vote for a torrie who wanted to leave the EU. I thought that DD was more eurosceptic so was gutted when DC became your leader.

He looks like a used car salesman.

"Running the Conservative Party is like making love to a beautiful woman."

Christina

All the major EU-Skeptics in the Conservative Party backed Cameron, not Davis, inc Dan Hannan. It is Cameron who wanted out of the EPP and that process is underway.

PS From the perspective of a pro-EU Lib Dem on the LDYS forum.

http://www.ldys.org.uk/forum/viewtop...=6385&start=20

komerad

[/quote]

I believe kernow has hit the nail on the head with his statement above, but I don’t honestly think that the British public are particularly thick. They are apathetic, and not interested in anything going on around them UNLESS it interferes with their own little world.
If the French farmers, lorry drivers, seaman or any other group of workers have a grievance against their government, or don’t like a decision made by the government, they demonstrate. They block motorways, seaports etc until something is done about it.
The British won’t do that. They haven’t got the bottle for it. As long as they have their soaps and other favourite TV programmes, their football and enough money to get pi**ed on the weekends, a fortnight in Tenerife or where ever once a year, they are not in the least bit interested who runs our country, Tory, Lab, Lib/Dems or The EU.
Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone, we know that, but unfortunately it does, I believe, apply to the vast majority of the British people.
APATHY RULES – a condition far more dangerous than any party politics.

Angryjohn

http://www.ldys.org.uk/forum/viewtop...=6385&start=20[/quote]

Ouch! And probably quite true.

This brings us back to the UKIP image problem again.

Christina

I think UKIP have the same problem the Conservatives had before Cameron, and it was Cameron who talked about the only solution. Tests were done in which people were shown Conservative policies and they had a pretty high rating UNTIL the people tested were told they were the policies of the Conservative Party.

UKIP can come up with brilliant policies, but people still won't vote for them for the same reason.

Instead of learning from Cameron's example in turning a Party around, they slag him off and make out he is ruining the Conservative Party.