£1,300…just to change a few church light bulbs.

mkpdavies · 19-10-2005, 07:34 PM

http://www.ukip.org/abc_news/gen12.php?t=1&id=1651

Quote:

£1,300…just to change a few church light bulbs. Thanks, naturally, to the EU Working at Height Directive

19-10-2005

Changing light bulbs at St Benet’s Roman Catholic Church used to involve the local electrician and some long ladders.

He’d be gone after a couple of hours, leaving the nave brightly lit and a bill for around £200.

But that was before the European Union got round to legislation covering light bulbs, the changing of. Thanks to Schedule Six of the Work*ing At Height Directive, renewing just five bulbs at St Benet’s in Beccles, Norfolk, has cost the church an amazing £1,300.

Under the new regulations, a risk assessment had to be undertaken which ruled out using a ladder.

Instead, scaffolding with a plat*form on top had to be erected to reach the bulbs which are 40ft above ground.

The job now takes at least two men two days, at a cost of £260 per bulb.

The priest, Father Anthony Sutch, Is bewildered. “I understand we have to protect people - but to what point?” he said.

“People are dying from MRSA in hospitals —where is their health and safety? It’s getting very silly”.

Father Sutch had to find new elec*tricians when the bulbs in his 100 year-old church needed changing recently because the old company had gone out of business.

When contractors looked at the job, the firm realised that using a ladder would breach the new rules.

Schedule Six states that ‘every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk’.

Father Sutch said: “The cost is six times what it was and my collections are not growing that fast. I’m trying to concentrate on the things of God, but it’s difficult with all these wor*ries about money.”

The priest said he is now looking at getting longer-lasting bulbs and having them lowered to reduce his maintenance bill. But this will cost around £6,000.

He has ruled out the cheapest alternative – doing it himself.

“When I was a young monk, I climbed up a ladder to have a look at something and two girls walking past whistled and said what good legs I have. I haven’t climbed up a ladder since.

Daily Mail – 19th October 2005

C_steam · 19-10-2005, 08:11 PM

Actually, the EU is building on the previous H&S legislation of the UK - which has one of the best safety records and legislative systems in Europe.

Much of the legislation is based around the principle of risk assessment, which is a sensible base. Forty foot drop from the top - up in a nave with real difficulty securing the top of the ladder? Fancy climbing it the first time when the top ISN'T secured? sod that! I'd use scaffolding or staging any time in preference!

Quote:

When contractors looked at the job, the firm realised that using a ladder would breach the new rules.

Or, more correctly probably, "when contractors carried out a risk assessment, they understood that use of a ladder was far more dangerous than reasonable alternatives"

Typical sensationalist headline from the daily mail - I wonder if any of the reporters have climbed a forty foot ladder?

Quote:

“I understand we have to protect people - but to what point?” he said.

The point to which falling forty foot to certain death because of a couple of lightbulbs is prevented.

Sheila · 19-10-2005, 08:36 PM

.
This week's newspaper stories got very confused between the directive and the UK implementing regulations.

I saw printed copies of both today - the directive is four pages, the UK regulations over 20 pages!
.

B.A.Ware · 19-10-2005, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_steam

Forty foot drop from the top - up in a nave with real difficulty securing the top of the ladder? Fancy climbing it the first time when the top ISN'T secured? sod that! I'd use scaffolding or staging any time in preference!

That’s because you don’t do this for a living as you probably don’t stand in front of a lathe (with no guards) with a large piece of Brass spinning at 12,000 RPM.

This is ********, how do people get up 30 foot trees they use a ladder and secure it when they are at the top, how the hell can steeplejacks get to the top of a tower.

The trouble with this type of legislation it is written by people that have never done this type of work or are probably so scared of going up a ladder that they have to justify it by making rules that no one can.

Lets risk assess getting behind a V8 sports car or any car come to think of it, we would all have to travel around driving at 10 mph.

Quote:

Or, more correctly probably, "when contractors carried out a risk assessment, they understood that use of a ladder was far more dangerous than reasonable alternatives"

Or more correctly the contractor thought I can use these new rules to screw you.

Bluemerle · 19-10-2005, 10:47 PM

I have met Dom Anthony Sutch. He was Headmaster of Downside Catholic School before retiring from education to Norfolk.

His hobby is horse racing. He once asked for leave to visit his mother, the priest in charge gave the permission, and he then went to the races. He was asked if he would like to lead the favourite INTO phpbb_the winners enclosure, and then realised it was being filmed on Channel 4. Needless to say he was caught out. He is a great character, and a wonderful after dinner speaker, and is totally onside.

Harrism · 20-10-2005, 12:23 AM

It's crazy people should take responsibilty for their actions not ask someone else to be their adopted father!

If I choose to walk across the road I dont expect all cars to travel at 5mph just because I might be on cruches with a half broken leg unable to move out of the way in time. This is all just getting one huge joke with some little kid stuck behind the wheel laughing at us all. They must think we're right mugs.

Harrism · 20-10-2005, 12:25 AM

sorry carry on, I just don't like people thinking their caring for me. If I play with knives and cut off my own hand thats my own fault. as long as I wasnt forced INTO phpbb_anything.

C_steam · 20-10-2005, 11:22 AM

Its not about 'if you choose'. YOU can do whatever you like to yourself, H&S legislation applies to Employers - the idea is to protect the employees. All H&S legislation asks is that you carry out a risk assessment - a sensible precaution - and take all reasonable steps to reduce danger.

And 'reasonable' means just that. Reasonable given the circumstances, the risk, the cost etc etc.

Schedule 6 of the SI states:-
1. Every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and -
(a) the short duration of use; or
(b) existing features on site which he cannot alter.

also

9. Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms.

there is NO regulation which prevented the use of ladders in existence.

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19-10-2005, 08:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sheila Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 573	. This week's newspaper stories got very confused between the directive and the UK implementing regulations. I saw printed copies of both today - the directive is four pages, the UK regulations over 20 pages! .

19-10-2005, 10:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,248	I have met Dom Anthony Sutch. He was Headmaster of Downside Catholic School before retiring from education to Norfolk. His hobby is horse racing. He once asked for leave to visit his mother, the priest in charge gave the permission, and he then went to the races. He was asked if he would like to lead the favourite INTO phpbb_the winners enclosure, and then realised it was being filmed on Channel 4. Needless to say he was caught out. He is a great character, and a wonderful after dinner speaker, and is totally onside.

20-10-2005, 12:23 AM	#6 (permalink)
Harrism Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 113	It's crazy people should take responsibilty for their actions not ask someone else to be their adopted father! If I choose to walk across the road I dont expect all cars to travel at 5mph just because I might be on cruches with a half broken leg unable to move out of the way in time. This is all just getting one huge joke with some little kid stuck behind the wheel laughing at us all. They must think we're right mugs.

20-10-2005, 12:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
Harrism Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 113	sorry carry on, I just don't like people thinking their caring for me. If I play with knives and cut off my own hand thats my own fault. as long as I wasnt forced INTO phpbb_anything.

20-10-2005, 11:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Anwhere far away from the cabalistas Posts: 7,459	Its not about 'if you choose'. YOU can do whatever you like to yourself, H&S legislation applies to Employers - the idea is to protect the employees. All H&S legislation asks is that you carry out a risk assessment - a sensible precaution - and take all reasonable steps to reduce danger. And 'reasonable' means just that. Reasonable given the circumstances, the risk, the cost etc etc. Schedule 6 of the SI states:- 1. Every employer shall ensure that a ladder is used for work at height only if a risk assessment under regulation 3 of the Management Regulations has demonstrated that the use of more suitable work equipment is not justified because of the low risk and - (a) the short duration of use; or (b) existing features on site which he cannot alter. also 9. Where a ladder or run of ladders rises a vertical distance of 9 metres or more above its base, there shall, where reasonably practicable, be provided at suitable intervals sufficient safe landing areas or rest platforms. there is NO regulation which prevented the use of ladders in existence.