News: Marks and Spencer food hall plastic bag charges - opposition to charges grows

Besoeker · 13-05-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I dug up an old pond the other day, which the people before me had put in place. They had put plastic bags under the proper lining. I doubt they had been there a 1000 years, but there wasn't much left of them.

How do you think a sheet of newsprint would have fared?

Besoeker · 13-05-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

And like I said earlier in this thread, the more paper bags are used - the more trees will be needed.

And hence more land?
Maybe. But maybe it is not so simple.
From my observations, recycling of paper has increased significantly over my lifetime. (Check out Smith Anderson Packaging and Aylesford newsprint for example). Faster growing softwood trees have been developed. If these trends continue, there is no certainty that more land will be required.
And even if it is, would that be bad. If so, why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

There is no point using more land to grow trees to make paper bags when a By-product in petroleum plants (which would otherwise go to waste and which requires no large land area to produce) is available to make plastic bags.

Assuming that LDPE isn't used for other products, of course. And there are many.

One final point. As long as we can grow trees we have the basic material to make anything from wood that can be made from wood. At the current rate of consumption, fossil fuels will run out.

And, for the avoidance of doubt, I am not against the use of plastic bags....just their misuse.

Britannist · 13-05-2008, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

At the current rate of consumption, fossil fuels will run out.

I think that it would be better if these anti-plastic bag people spent more time addressing the crucially important issue of peak oil (i.e. the fact that oil and natural gas will both one day run out) rather than getting worked up about plastic bags at supermarket check outs.

Britannist · 13-05-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eurosceptic Atlanticist

Sainsbury's should....switch back to the white plastic bags which were of a much better quality.

Yes, the plastic bags they had before were better. However, Sainsbury's were right in picking the colour orange for their current plastics bags given out free at their check-outs. The orange plastic bags are easily visible and thus help advertise their shop.

mkpdavies · 14-05-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

How do you think a sheet of newsprint would have fared?

Even less time. Why we bother wasting time, energy and cash recycling that, I have no idea.

Besoeker · 14-05-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

I think that it would be better if these anti-plastic bag people spent more time addressing the crucially important issue of peak oil (i.e. the fact that oil and natural gas will both one day run out) rather than getting worked up about plastic bags at supermarket check outs.

Even if they did, can they stop it running out?

Britannist · 14-05-2008, 07:17 PM

Obviously not - as we have discussed before they should be looking actively to find alternative energy supplies. This (the problem of oil and natural gas running out) is one of the most important issues of the 21st century.

Besoeker · 14-05-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Britannist

Obviously not - as we have discussed before they should be looking actively to find alternative energy supplies. This (the problem of oil and natural gas running out) is one of the most important issues of the 21st century.

Yes. Nuclear.
But it is already a decade too late to avoid the impending power crunch.

Besoeker · 15-05-2008, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Why we bother wasting time, energy and cash recycling that, I have no idea.

Because it is cheaper than using new raw material.

mkpdavies · 15-05-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Because it is cheaper than using new raw material.

Only when massively subsidised with stolen taxpayer cash.

14-05-2008, 07:17 PM	#67 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Alternative energy supplies Obviously not - as we have discussed before they should be looking actively to find alternative energy supplies. This (the problem of oil and natural gas running out) is one of the most important issues of the 21st century.

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