Britannist

Thank you for your agreement on this, RJT.

The Big Brother nanny state must be opposed.

Charging for plastic bags at supermarket check-outs will not result in less plastic bags being used. Many people use those plastic bags as bin-liners and (if all supermarkets start charging for plastic bags) they will go and buy rolls of plastic bin liners instead of using the plastic bags available at the supermarket check-out.

mkpdavies

I rember being told bags would take 1000 years to biodegrade at school.

I also remember thinking it was horseshit then, when I saw the state of some bags that had flower pots in my dad's garden.

Leave a bag out in your garden for just one year and then ask yourself it it will last 1000.

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Britannist

An excellent point MKP.

There is little chance a Sainsbury's plastic bag given at the check-out would last 1000 years - they are so thin that some of those I have used to put my shopping in at the check-out have started breaking up before I even got out the shop.

mkpdavies

Here is a site that supports carrier bags.

:: Carrier Bag Consortium - making life easier to handle ::

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mkpdavies

PLASTIC CARRIER BAGS - THE BEST ENVIRONMENTAL CHOICEMATERIALENVIRONMENTAL
ADVANTAGESENVIRONMENTAL
DISADVANTAGESMINERAL OIL BASED POLYTHENE
(eg HDPE & LDPE "Normal" Bags)
Low CO emissions in production.
Compact - Low CO emissions in distribution.
Benign in landfill - Easily recycled.
Does not emit methane in degradation.
Non-toxic combustion.
Long life for low material & energy input.
Very low bulk - insignificant in landfill. Can be dangerous in sea to cetaceans
(applicable mainly to small see through product bags).
Littering (predominantly thin HD type bags, agricultural and industrial stretch films).MINERAL OIL BASED POLYTHENE
WITH DEGRADING ADDITIVE
Reduced litter ?

Questionable:
Takes approx. 18 months to degrade. A recyclable material is lost for recycling.
If mixed, degrades quality of other recyclables.
Embrittles into particles, does not biodegrade.
Long term effect of ingestion by organisms and animals unknown.
Not IBAW approved for composting.
Unsuitable for long term packaging protection. ORGANIC BASED
BIODEGRADABLE POLYTHENE
Biodegrades. Natural habitat loss to crops.
Use of Agro chemicals.
Poor lifespan.
Unsuitable for long term packaging protection.
Cost. PAPER
Biodegrades ?

Questionable:
Many paper bags have a polythene coating or are laminated. High CO2 emission to crop, harvest, pulp & mill.
High CO2 emission in paper conversion to product.
Bulky & heavy - High CO2 emission in distribution.
High additive content.
High emission of methane in landfill. NON WOVEN FABRIC (PP)
Recycled materials can be used.
Does not degrade - Benign in landfill.
Does not emit methane in degradation. High CO2 in fabric manufacture.
High CO2 in conversion to product.
Bulky - High CO2 in distribution. NYLON
Long lasting. High CO2 in fabric manufacture.
High CO2 in conversion to product.
Bulky - High CO2 in distribution. JUTE
Biodegradable (except LDPE liner).
Long lasting. Natural habitat loss to crops.
High CO2 in cropping.
High CO2 in fabric manufacture.
High CO2 in conversion to product.
Bulky - High CO2 in distribution. COTTON
Biodegradable.
Long lasting. Natural habitat loss to crops.
Use of agrochemicals.
Requires irrigation.
High CO2 in cropping.
High CO2 in fabric manufacture.
High CO2 in conversion to product.
Bulky - High CO2 in distribution

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Britannist

Another good point MKP - I've seen the poor state of plastic bags just a few years' old which are used to store cables and plugs in a relative's garage. There is no way those plastic bags would last a millennium - the very suggestion that they will is ridiculous.

Britannist

A good website - thank you for that link Matthew. I have made a note to read all the articles (on the website on the above link) when I have more time later this week.

I wish them every success in their campaign against the idea of a plastic bag tax.

Britannist

I notice the following points made in the American report against plastic bag taxes (on one of the links given in the website link quoted in the last posting to this thread):

* Plastic bags generate 60% less greenhouse gas emissions than uncomposted paper bags, and 79% less greenhouse gas emissions than composted paper bags.

* Plastic bags consume less than 4% of the water needed to make paper bags.

* Plastic grocery bags consume 40% less energy during production and generate 80% less solid waste than paper bags.

* Paper sacks generate 70 percent more air, and 50 times more water pollutants, than plastic bags.

* It takes 91 percent less energy to recycle a pound of plastic than it takes to recycle a pound of paper.

Britannist

In March 2006, the Taiwan Environment Protection Administration lifted a 4.5 year ban on retailers offering customers light weight plastic carry bags because evidence showed that the policy did not work.

Source: Carrierbagtax.com

Westcountryman

Yes, they are very poor quality indeed. Sainsbury's should do themselves a favour and switch back to the white plastic bags which were of a much better quality.

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