Millennium3

The population concern was expressed in the first post ie that if Britain were obliged to take care of its own population in a time of global food shortage, presently, it could only provide for 17m of the 60m.

John Connor

I thought that was implied when I typed "all government handouts". When I typed "all", I meant "all".

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youcanhandlethetruth

Fair enough but you did say "first step".

So are you against the "hand outs" we give government in the way of taxation ?

John Connor

For anything beyond the bare minimum required to keep a functional infrastructure and defence system, yep.

But then, the money supply grows (which is why we have inflation) as it is, so why couldn't it grow via the government printing the money it requires to function? Surely we could do away with taxes entirely? In these days of fiat currency, it's not like they have to go dig more gold up, is it?

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Users on ignore list: Akria, Besoeker, Clippo, david H, Ian C.

youcanhandlethetruth

In the case of the US, they are indeed printing the money, but does that solve the problem or does it create the problem ?

You make a good point. Why for instance, are governments choosing to borrow money that they should be able to print themselves ?
Do governments have control over their money supply or is it in the hands of privately owned bankers ?

As I understand it, whatever system is used to back up a nations wealth, normally they would not be able to create more money, gold or whatever, until additional natural resources and general wealth has been created.

But in the case of the fed, we see a situation where the value of the dollar had declined in recent years. It is not that gold has increased in value, but rather the value of the dollar has declined.

I suspect it will not be long before the dollar value collapses to reflect the rapidly deteriorating US economy, held together only by Asia's reserve dollars.

What happens if/when asia dumps the dollar ? Hold on to your seats.......

Anyway, to go back to the original point, I may agree with you.

But surely if people have payed money to the government in taxation, they deserve to use government public services, whether that be benefits, hospital treatment, whatever.

However you could not necessarily make the same case for immigrants who have entered the UK (not that I believe there aren't bigger issues to concern ourselves with).

Ihope

bearing in mind your ignore list do you know anthing about HAARP technology regarding climate change?

youcanhandlethetruth

Yes Millenium, I should have addressed that point too in my post.

If you read the above article carefully, you have to ask yourself:

a) why they are pointing towards a scenario in the future where Britain has to rely on it's own resources ?
As a country, we have managed to rely on our own resources for years. If there is a problem with food, surely the answer is to increase agricultural planning for the future and not "depopulation" ?!!
I suspect British agriculture is probably at an all time low, so why not support farming in Britain to ensure our survival.

b) what is the link between "living sustainably" and every person's ecological footprint ? Are we saying MMGW is causing a food/energy shortage ?
I just can't see a link at all - if someone can point it out to me I'd be grateful......

c) how would a situation where "the world could be at war over resources" come about ?
Wars do not just happen - they are planned by higher echelons in and above government - that statement only emphasizes the fact. The same also applies to energy reserves.

Millenium, you say "we change our current religion of 'getting and spending' to one which is possible to sustain." - you've got to read this which exposes the myth about oil running out, the fact there is an artificial scarcity being created, for the direct benefit of the oil companies:

The Myth Of Peak Oil

"Globalization is all about consolidation. Now that the world economy has become so centralized through the Globalists operations, they are going to continue to consolidate and blame it on the West's "evil" overconsumption of fossil fuels, while at the same time blocking the development and integration of renewable clean technologies.

In other words, Peak oil is a scam to create artificial scarcity and drive prices up. Meanwhile, alternative fuel technologies which have been around for decades are intentionally suppressed."

"Earlier this year Saudi Arabia reportedly increased its crude reserves by around 200 billion barrels. Saudi oil Is secure and plentiful, say officials."

"There have also been reports that Russia has vastly increased its reserves even beyond those of Saudi Arabia. Why would they do this if they believed there would be no more oil to get hold of? It seems clear that Russia is ready for unlimited future production of oil."

Whether the problem is portrayed as lack of resources or by MMGW being a pollutant, govt's can fight a battle on two fronts - blaming high energy prices on limited resource, whilst telling us MMGW is causing environmental disaster.....

As for depopulation, consider also for example the link entitled:

"The Club of Rome consulted with Kissinger before he issued his 1974 depopulation manifesto to President Carter. The plan calls for creating artificial food scarcity in order to depopulate the third world."

depopulation

"There is a single theme behind all our work-we must reduce population levels," said Thomas Ferguson, the Latin American case officer for the State Department's Office of Population Affairs (OPA).

"Either they [governments] do it our way, through nice clean methods or they will get the kind of mess that we have in El Salvador, or in Iran, or in Beirut. Population is a political problem. Once population is out of control it requires authoritarian government, even fascism, to reduce it "The professionals," said Ferguson, "aren't interested in lowering population for humanitarian reasons. That sounds nice. We look at resources and environmental constraints. We look at our strategic needs, and we say that this country must lower its population-or else we will have trouble.

d) What is really meant by a "national population policy" ?


A very bleak future indeed !

Clippo

g hall, the following is sincerely meant:-

I am not trying to make you look foolish over your previously posted proposals. As I honestly said, I would like to believe that some or all are feasible. However, I hold view that the 'promise' that technology will save mankind is risky - even in the short term.
I am far more worried about the problems of Climate Change (& I accept that that you don't appear to believe those), and the projected problems of Population growth.

g hall

long pig anyone

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g hall

Cr@ppo I don't give a FFAARD about your likes or dislikes you parade yourself as a scientist and yet have no idea about the posts on future technology I have made

Your first attempt to "make me look foolish" only betrayed your own stupidity which you continue to hawk around this forum despite the continued exposure of it - now personally as I've said I don't give a Flying F*ck At A Rolling Donut because you are just not worth seriously debating with so be happy this is my LAST ever response to your delirious ravings

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."