Akria

Given that we have remained in the present Holocene warm period for a period of time significantly beyond the average length of such an interglacial, and therefore making the not unreasonable assumption that we should really be expecting a descent into an ice age, I would say that yes, it is faster than would be expected if only natural causes and cycles were taken into account, as we would then be able to define the rate of melting as a negative number when it is, on average, a positive number at the moment.

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Please do not reply to me unless you are sure you have not missed out the key points I am making and key words I am using.

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The commonality of mankind:
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
If you tickle us, do we not laugh?
If you poison us, do we not die?

AlanA

As usual, Christopher Booker is spot on, with another excellent article.
Perhaps the sheeple on this website, aka Akria and Clippo might like to look at the website Cryosphere Today. Of course, they would say it is factually incorrect, as it doesn't comply with the current Global Warming fanatics' point of view.

Aardvark

As I pointed out on another thread the whole debate is about 'global' warming and not taking anything in isolation. Using one year as an example or one region is poor science on the part of both sides. This is a matter that has to be looked at in the round over a long period, but only a fool would use up all the world's resources and pollute the atmosphere just because they haven't got the answer to hand right now.

I might not support the catastrophic theory of global warming, but I am also alert to people making cheap shots at those who do.

I cannot accept that there is no MMGW, but am happy to be convinced about the quantity.

The reason I accept the principle is that the population of the world has more than trebled in my short life time. Each human alive today consumes more, on average, than those who lived in the world 50 years ago so that energy consumption is several times higher than it was when I was born. Much of that energy is carbon based and pollutes the atmosphere. It must have an effect on rainfall patterns, if nothing else, since the amount of hygroscopic nuclei is consideraly greater than at any time in history. That's just common sense.

The problem as I see it is the fact that the population is increasing at such a rate, and international policy is so influenced by poor science and big business, that there will be drought and famine on an unprecedented scale long before the full effects of MMGW can be assessed. Other pollution is also taking its toll whilst the pressure on resources is increasing.

I'm 'privileged' to have travelled to some 50 countries on 4 continents and to have seen environmental destruction with my own eyes (ever been to a town where all the bird life has been killed by industrial gases and where in summer humans have to wear masks or stay in doors at certain times, 'cos I have?). I've seen people stacked on top of each other in city states as well as wandered in wildernesses littered with the trash that only humans can dump everywhere. My travel is not carbon neutral, but most of it has been work based before you ask.

The majority of the Earth's population is under the age of 15 with no understanding of the world as a whole. Most adults are the same. It never ceases to amaze me at how parochial we all are. My job involves travelling to other countries and interviewing politicians, amongst others. There are people whose countries can barely survive who think that the solution to all of their problems is to join the EU and get handouts. There are loads of people whose main political priority is to invade their neighbours over an ancient land dispute. MMGW doean't feature on the political radar in many of these countries and pollution is an accepted part of having any sort of industrial economy - I have met people who have complained of pollution to be told by the polluters that if the law is changed they will close their factories and move to a country that allows them to pollute!!

In the west we can have an informed debate and I gladly fill 3 or 4 boxes a week with recyclable materials to do my bit, but having seen the destruction wrought elsewhere I suspect I am p**sing into wind.

Oddly our economy is about to be destroyed by a green initiative - the amount of biofuels we must use (by EU diktat) exceeds our nation's capacity to produce them (literally there is not enough farmland in this country to produce the 20% of fuel that must be provided and we're going to build 3 million houses on the remaining land in any event). Virtually all biofuels will have to be imported whilst the cost of crops will go so high most meat farmers will be unable to afford feed and therefore meat will become a luxury that most of us will not be able to afford in 10 years time. Beer and whisky will also become ludicrously expensive as barley and grain will be difficult to source. This is going to be an EU wide problem as either biofuels or food will have to be imported. Those fuels/that food will come from the third world as the US has already used 25% of its land to produce biofuels and will soon become a net importer of grain.. The money we can pay will exceed what the locals can pay and starvation will follow very quickly.

MMGW is less of a problem than the fact that the world's population is increasing at a rate that can no longer be sustained. Look at bread prices and tell me that it's not happening already. One more bad harvest and the world will have to wake up to the fact that there is no more capacity. Watch the sparks fly when countries refuse to sell their precious food to the west.

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When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Frith

I am not saying there is no global warming or that humans are not responsible for massive areas of habitat destruction. I have supported the green view of sustainable communities and civilizations all my life.

If some semblance of order is not applied to the random hysteria generated by the media people will become depressed enough to feel numb about the real dangers. Simply trying to scare them to death won't work and could have the opposite effect.

Britannist

I agree Alan.

And, as the second-best selling broadsheet newspaper on a Sunday, Mr. Booker's article in the Sunday Telegraph will have been read by far more people than the small number of those who visit obscure websites run by global warming alarmists.

Besoeker

The popularity of an article does not confer accuracy on its content.

g hall

But perhaps more people will research the original reports and we may have more information about the arguments about alleged MMGW which may help people to decide instead of having to listen to the mass hysteria of Al Bore and his co conspirators

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"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

Britannist

And no doubt you will hold that that applies to pro-'green' articles in newspapers backing the climate change lobby.

rjt

Indeed we all know tha sole purpose of most of our media is to curry favour with the political elite in the hope of getting something from them.

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Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

Britannist

The climate change lobby are suddenly very quiet at the moment what with parts of China, Cyprus, the USA and the Middle East experiencing their coldest and iciest winter for half a century.