"World's first commercial flight powered on alternative fuel takes off"

Britannist · 01-02-2008, 09:06 PM

Several weeks ago I wrote that a commercial flight partly powered by alternative fuel was about to take place - and now it has happened.

It is good that efforts are being made to find an alternative fuel to petrol/oil/kerosene:

Feed Article | Business |

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Besoeker · 01-02-2008, 09:09 PM

But no cleaner in CO2 according to the article.

Britannist · 01-02-2008, 09:19 PM

Unfortunate if it is true. I would like to find out more about this (i.e. I am not sure I can agree with the claim that some biofuels may pollute as much as petrol/oil/kerosene).

It is good news that they are looking at development of alternative liquid fuels for aircraft, because, of course, oil (kerosene fuel for aircraft) is not going to last forever.

Clippo · 02-02-2008, 08:15 AM

I saw this article also. However, as Besoeker has pointed out, it is no better in CO2 emissions than convential fuels.

How can it be when is effectively polymerised low chain lower hydrocarbon gases to , quess what ?, hydrocarbons of similar chain length to Kerosene et al ?

However, I suppose it may take some pressure of the biofuels industry - growing food to burn.
&

Quote:

(i.e. I am not sure I can agree with the claim that some biofuels may pollute as much as petrol/oil/kerosene).

There is no contest here Britannist. If any fuel is carbon based, when burnt it will emit CO2 - full stop - basic combustion Chemistry. Any differences will be broadly due to the number of carbon atoms in the respective fuel molecule.

I started a reply to you in the other thread where this came up but got side-tracked. However, I did find an interesting table of fuel efficiencies (bolded because this isn't the same as emissions), and Heats of Combustion in Wiki :-

Fuel efficiency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Britannist · 03-02-2008, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clippo

There is no contest here Britannist. If any fuel is carbon based, when burnt it will emit CO2 - full stop - basic combustion Chemistry. Any differences will be broadly due to the number of carbon atoms in the respective fuel molecule.

In that case, more research will have to be done to find a liquid fuel which does not pollute.

C_steam · 03-02-2008, 08:44 AM

YouTube - Stan Meyer - Water Fuel Cell

Meyer cells and similar. Meyer was murdered, by the way.

Besoeker · 03-02-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C_steam

Meyer cells and similar. Meyer was murdered, by the way.

Quote:

Meyer's claims about the Water Fuel Cell and the car that it powered were found to be fraudulent by an Ohio court in 1996.[1]

Water fuel cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mkpdavies · 03-02-2008, 09:04 AM

News item : Stanley Meyer - sci.energy.hydrogen | Google Groups&

Quote:

End of road for car that ran on Water

American court finds inventor of water-powered car is guilty of fraud.
Report by Tony Edwards

It appears to be the end of the road for maverick inventor Stanley Meyer and
his water-powered car after a recent American court verdict.

The car was a wonderful, if unlikely, dream while it lasted, offering a
pollution-free future powered by a limitless source of energy. But the
dream was shattered when Meyer was found guilty of fraud after his Water
Fuel Cell was tested before an Ohio judge.
It is rare for an inventor to be prosecuted for an invention that does not
work, but Meyer's problem was that he had been selling "dealerships",
offering investors the "right to do business'' in Water Fuel Cell tech-
nology in anticipation of the day when water would power anything From
domestic boilers to cars and aircraft.
But recently two suspicious investors could not wait for that day to dawn
and sued Meyer to get their money back.
Meyer defended, maintaining his long-held claim that the Water Fuel Cell was a truly
revolutionary invention that could split water into its two constituent
gases of hydrogen and oxygen far more efficiently than conventional
electrolysis. The secret, he said, was to "resonate" electricity at a very
high voltage through water and so "fracture" the hydrogen/oxygen molecular
bond. This, he claimed, opened the way for a car which would "run on wat-
er", powered simply by a car battery. The car would even run for ever since
the energy needed to continue the "fracturing" was so low that the bat-
tery could be recharged: from the engine's dynamo.
Meyer claimed to have adapted a 1.6-litre Volkswagen Dune Buggy to run on
water. He replaced the sparkplugs with "injectors" which, he said, sprayed
water as a fine mist in a "resonant cavity" where it was bombarded by a
succession of high-voltage electrical pulses. He claimed this instantly
converted the water into a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen that could be
combusted in the cylinders, driving the pistons just as in an ordinary
petrol engine.
One of the experts due toexamine the car was Michael Laughton, professor
of electrical engineering at Queen Mary and Westfield University, London,
but he was not allowed to see it. "Although Meyer had known about our
visit weeks in advance, when we arrived he made some lame excuse about why
the car wasn't working, so it was impossible to evaluate it," said
Laughton.
However, the one thing Meyer had built that appeared to work was his Water
Fuel Cell, and it was this device that the Ohio judge called as evidence in
the recent lawsuit.
The cell had been the centrepiece of Meyer's sales pitches. It was a
transparent cylinder of water inside which was a core of stainless steel
electrodes. When plugged into an electrical supply,the cell bubbled away
merrily, producing apparently copious amounts of gas that Meyer ignited
through a welding torch.To the layman it was an impressive performance and
hundreds of small investors signed up, but it did not impress three expert
witnesses in court.
They decided that there was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and
that it was simply using conventional electrolysis.
Meyer was found guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay
the investors their $25,000 (£15,000).

As usual, Wiki tries very hard to paint this as a complete fraud and scoffs at the idea that the bloke could possibly have been murdered. Indeed, when I see all the usual tactics being deployed to throw people off the scent, I just get more suspicious.
I'm going to go an look into this court case, where it was called a fraud now.

C_steam · 03-02-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I'm going to go an look into this court case, where it was called a fraud now.

theres loads of similar stuff - including using high voltage pulsed DC to drive a spark plug which 'ignites' water - on U tube. I got interested in this stuff after reading 'hunt for zero point' by Nick Cook.

there are some 'odd' things appearing to be happening - but I couldn't say yes or no scientifically. Suffice to say regarding meyer that he held patents for his devices.

and regarding meyer (i can't vouch for the veracity of this):

Quote:

He was apparently eating dinner at a Grove City OH restaurant, when it is reported that he jumped up from the table, yelled that he'd been poisoned", and rushed out into the parking lot, where he collapsed and died.

Clippo · 03-02-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

The car would even run for ever since
the energy needed to continue the "fracturing" was so low that the bat-
tery could be recharged: from the engine's dynamo.

I'm surprised he didn't claim he could condense & recycle the water from the burning of the Hydrogen & Oxygen supposedly formed. - and go the whole hog to claim a perpetual motion machine.

I think a few laws of Thermodynics are being violated here.

One born every minute

01-02-2008, 09:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	"World's first commercial flight powered on alternative fuel takes off" Several weeks ago I wrote that a commercial flight partly powered by alternative fuel was about to take place - and now it has happened. It is good that efforts are being made to find an alternative fuel to petrol/oil/kerosene: Feed Article \| Business \| Aero-News Network: The Aviation and Aerospace World's Daily/Real-Time News and Information Service

01-02-2008, 09:19 PM	#3 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Biofuels, pollute, petrol, oil, kerosene, alternative liquid fuels, aircraft Unfortunate if it is true. I would like to find out more about this (i.e. I am not sure I can agree with the claim that some biofuels may pollute as much as petrol/oil/kerosene). It is good news that they are looking at development of alternative liquid fuels for aircraft, because, of course, oil (kerosene fuel for aircraft) is not going to last forever.

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01-02-2008, 09:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Besoeker Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,753	But no cleaner in CO2 according to the article.