Besoeker

I think he did:

C_steam

You miss the point - or at last the claim -the whole thing about this messing about with water and electricity is that some think they have extracted more energy than they are putting in. A variant on the cold fusion thing, which although not fusion was the most well published example of achieving greater than unity efficiency.


I'm very sceptical, but feel there is more to this than meets the eye.

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mkpdavies

Maybe some laws of thermodynamics are actually not correct, or only account for a portion of possibilities.

Until someone can explain to me how the universe appeared out of nothing, or has always just existed, I don't accept any scientific laws are 100% definite.

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Akria

Such laws almost certainly account for that portion of possibilities which includes perpetual motion machines.

Science is beautiful because it admits that it doesn't know those things; indeed, that it can't.

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Clippo

I'm not sufficently versed in philosophies of the universe, (well actually I do know a bit but that would be unnecessarily diversionary in this discussion), but in a 'practical' work producing system, there is no way a perpetual system can exist without energy inputs from external sources. Energy is continually flowing from the working system by radiation and friction and probably other ways and thus the system would run down. In the subject example, he doesn't say he collects the combusted product water and therefore if so, that would be a massive energy drain on the system.

There may be devices already in which the run down is imperceptably slow (? atomic clocks ?) but nevertheless they all eventually run down.

It is a violation of the first two laws of thermodynamics to suppose a work producing perpetual system can be constructed. (look up 'perpetual motion' in you-know-where)

It might be possible to devise a 'thought' perpetual system but what's the use of that.

Besoeker

Here's one that claims "overunity" efficiency which amounts to the same thing:
http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=7jw6gk0ov0

Clippo

Re Besoeker's last post :-

I noticed that the commentator said 'a small electric 'motor' whereas to me it looked a very big electric motor.

I think the basic principle that this works on is conversion of manual work to heat. I seem to remember that some wind turbines worked on a similar principle - heating up an oil by turbulent mixing (viscous drag causing frictional heating) and then to a heat exchanger to heat the house or whatever.

Have you any follow up to this ? Has he, or anybody competent, measured energy in versus energy out ?

mkpdavies

I think this will probably die with him. I can't find much on it at all.

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Besoeker

At the point in the commentary where small electric motor was mentioned the clip actually showed part of the mechanical transmission that looked either like a coupling or maybe a torque transducer. It is certainly small compared to the electric motor. But the motors isn't a very big electric motor.....
This is what a fairly big electric machine looks like:



It's 6,500 kW, 11,000V and electronically speed controlled I might add.

At that sort of power, getting your sums wrong just isn't an option.
Either technically or commercially.
I put in quite a few hours burning the midnight candle.......