Britannist

Note that the weather changes as does the climate.

And both have been doing so for billions of years.

A bitter winter in China; snow in Cyprus and many adults in the Middle East now seeing snow for the first time.

Earlier this week a Russian scientist forecast that global cooling is about to begin with a mini-ice age from or soon after 2035.

Election-loser and anti-global warming campaigner Gore has been very quiet recently hasn't he?

Besoeker

Yes, but the timescales are different by orders of magnitude.
As is area if you are considering global climate.

Britannist

The weather changes and the world climate overall changes - always has and always will.

rjt

Just a bit more of a sensible view to take than the hysteria expressed from the europhile section of the forum.

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Britannist

I agree with you RJT.

Carbon emissions can be cut without making a big song and dance about it.

rjt

Indeed and you often find that those who sing the loudest are singing the song of the hypocrites.

'Do what we say but not as we do'.

We should take no notice of these people who would sell this country out just to impose there agenda on us.

__________________
Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO!
(Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990)

Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

Aardvark

Blair summed it up when he decided to continue to fly to exotic holidays rather than take his holiday in this country as so many of us do. Do as I say etc. Wait for his US style EU Presidential campaign and the carbon footprint he will create as he jets around - bet he goes to Guyana and Guadeloupe.

I've said it before, it's about trends, not isolated incidents. It might be the coldest in China for a while, but we're having one of our warmest winters in a long, long time.

A 5 degree increase in the world's temperature could still mean that where it is now -30 in the winter it will be -25. A 5 degree decrease could still mean that it gets to +45 in Jericho on the hotter days (I was there on +50 day). In 1913 Death Valley went for weeks at +48 and is still only the second hottest recorded place after Al Azizia in Libya at +57 in 1922 (that is in shelter at 5' above the ground - surface temperatures can be over +60 in many places). Therefore if there were to be an average 5 degree increase in global temperatures then there would still be cold and snow and ice in some places. If there were to be a 5 degree drop there would still be hot and dusty deserts, just less of them.

One point for those who suggest there is no warming process, man made or otherwise, why has there only been an inexorable increase in desertified areas? The Gobi is swallowing up large amounts of farmland every year, the Sahara is expanding, southern Spain is now officially desert. There is nowhere where the desert is being driven back - even Israel has abandoned the idea of turning the Negev green and settlements are being abandoned.

All these people posting reports of individual localised conditions really do look very silly. The snow in China does not mean that there is no MMGW; it just means that there is localised snow in China. A few snowy days in lots of different locations means nothing.

For anybody to make proper comment on MMGW they need proper science - that's for both sides. This requires recording weather conditions and atmospheric conditions in thousands of locations across the planet and for a sustained period. There has to be extensive computer modelling.

I still think mankind will have overpopulated the fertile areas and caused a drought a lot sooner than MMGW takes effect.

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When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

mkpdavies

I wish someone would tell Jack Frost that in Woking. I am sick of scraping ice off my car in the morning.

Mind it was a bit warmer today. No ice to scrape.

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Aardvark

Jack Frost hates the people of Woking. Everything is fine in Oxfordshire.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

Clippo

Aardvark wrote:-
Precisely what the World Meteorological Association (WMO) and the IPCC were set up to do, and have been doing for ~60 years & 19 years respectively.

Also, their conclusions are that the world is unequivacally warming, and mankind's activities are primarily the cause.
Unfortunately, there is a small, very small, group of people who cannot accept these findings because they, presumably will lose face or lose Exxon income or their conspiracy fanasies will be exposed as shams or they are anti-science religious extremists. They are determined NOT to believe it.
They won't say what is faulty about the data collected so far & they won't even try to define what sort of data would convince them.

The scientific evidence, collected by the appropriate scientists, by rigorous scientific methods has no ambiguity - the results are reliable at the >90% probability level.
Put it another way, if a group of bookies said that they were 90-95% confident a particular horse would win a certain race, wouldn't you think they knew something that you didn't ?

Sceptics are fond of the quote like the world has always warmed & cooled. In fact Britannist has implied the fact in two posts in this thread alone. Perhaps they should study what is known about the geological fluctuations of climate temperature.

At the risk of repeating myself, the last two major extinctions occured when the AVERAGE temperature of the atmosphere increased to 5-6 deg C above the estimated pre-industrial temperature or 4-5 Deg C over the current.

I call that cause for worry.