Hmmm... A rise of two degrees celsius?

Akria · 03-01-2007, 04:37 PM

Has anyone else seen that advert for some TV programme or other stating that a rise of two degrees Celsius would cause mass extinction in the oceans? That may or may not be true - I'm not an expert on the matter - but they strategically neglected to mention one thing: the energy required to do it.
I'm an amateur physicist, so I spotted it

.
1. One litre of water, I believe, takes 4,200 joules to have a rise in temperature of one degree Celsius.
2. 1,408,700,000 cubic kilometres is about 1.4087 × 10^21 litres, or 14,087,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
3. Now, we know that 4.2 kilojoules are needed to raise one litre of water by one degrees Celsius. Therefore, the total energy required to heat the entire volume of water on the Earth is equal to 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2 kJ.
This will give us the amount of energy needed in kilojoules.
So let's do it: 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2: 5,916,540,000,000,000,000,000 kilojoules.
Almost six thousand million billion kilojoules. Times that by a thousand to get the answer in joules.
And that's to raise the temperature of all the world's water by one degrees Celsius. Double the answer to raise it by two.
Bottom line: it's not gonna happen soon. The energy needed is too great.

Akria

Lazyguy · 03-01-2007, 04:41 PM

And that's British billions by the way.

Of course, none of this is man-made, so apart from when the Sun explodes, the Earth is going to be nippy forever.

Akria · 03-01-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazyguy

And that's British billions by the way.

Of course, non of this is man-made, so apart from when the Sun explodes, the Earth is going to be nippy forever.

Of course it's British billions. I am British!

Notice his usage of 'non'. *tuts*

Akria

Lazyguy · 03-01-2007, 04:50 PM

I have edited my post. I was simply informing traitorous dogs that this is a thousand times bigger than they will simply sweep under the carpet.

Besoeker · 03-01-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

Has anyone else seen that advert for some TV programme or other stating that a rise of two degrees Celsius would cause mass extinction in the oceans? That may or may not be true - I'm not an expert on the matter - but they strategically neglected to mention one thing: the energy required to do it.
I'm an amateur physicist, so I spotted it

.
1. One litre of water, I believe, takes 4,200 joules to have a rise in temperature of one degree Celsius.
2. 1,408,700,000 cubic kilometres is about 1.4087 × 10^21 litres, or 14,087,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
3. Now, we know that 4.2 kilojoules are needed to raise one litre of water by one degrees Celsius. Therefore, the total energy required to heat the entire volume of water on the Earth is equal to 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2 kJ.
This will give us the amount of energy needed in kilojoules.
So let's do it: 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2: 5,916,540,000,000,000,000,000 kilojoules.
Almost six thousand million billion kilojoules. Times that by a thousand to get the answer in joules.
And that's to raise the temperature of all the world's water by one degrees Celsius. Double the answer to raise it by two.
Bottom line: it's not gonna happen soon. The energy needed is too great.

Akria

Over what time period?

g hall · 04-01-2007, 09:42 AM

I thought the Green Facists suggested by 2050?
(Are they Green because of Jealousy or Naivety) -
cut down on CO2 emissions gag a politician start with Gore

mkpdavies · 04-01-2007, 09:53 AM

I heard on the news the other day that Branson, the super green hero, is starting up a global cheap flights business.

I did laugh.

Akria · 04-01-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

Has anyone else seen that advert for some TV programme or other stating that a rise of two degrees Celsius would cause mass extinction in the oceans? That may or may not be true - I'm not an expert on the matter - but they strategically neglected to mention one thing: the energy required to do it.
I'm an amateur physicist, so I spotted it

.
1. One litre of water, I believe, takes 4,200 joules to have a rise in temperature of one degree Celsius.
2. 1,408,700,000 cubic kilometres is about 1.4087 × 10^21 litres, or 14,087,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
3. Now, we know that 4.2 kilojoules are needed to raise one litre of water by one degrees Celsius. Therefore, the total energy required to heat the entire volume of water on the Earth is equal to 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2 kJ.
This will give us the amount of energy needed in kilojoules.
So let's do it: 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2: 5,916,540,000,000,000,000,000 kilojoules.
Almost six thousand million billion kilojoules. Times that by a thousand to get the answer in joules.
And that's to raise the temperature of all the world's water by one degrees Celsius. Double the answer to raise it by two.
Bottom line: it's not gonna happen soon. The energy needed is too great.

Akria

Over what time period?

Hmmmm?
What do you mean exactly?
Let us suppose that each litre of water in the world absorbs about half a kilojoule of energy per day, a very large estimate.
That would take 8.4 days.
Now, as I said, this is a very large estimate. Extremely large, in fact.
I would hazard a guess that it would be a tiny fraction of a joule per day, mainly because we have to consider the idea that any energy absorbed by the water will not only be lost through the normal methods (conduction and radiation to surroundings and convection currents to the colder air) but will also be expended through the things the water does and through both the breaking of waves against the coast and water currents.
Then you must consider that the weather varies, especially out at sea: on colder, cloudier days, as they so often seem to be at sea, particularly in the Atlantic, less energy from the Sun will be absorbed.
I believe that global warming is a real phenomenon being hastened by the actions of humanity, and I agree that it is a real problem that we need to do something about. However, I disagree with the idea that the oceans are going to be warmed by two degrees Celsius before marine life capable of surviving the change evolves.

Akria

Besoeker · 04-01-2007, 09:54 PM

Akria

In point 2 your first post you mention 1,408,700,000 km^3.
I assume that is the known or estimated volume of seawater?
I agree with your conversion to litres as 1.4E+21. I didn't bother to count all the zeros, but I assume they are correct. That being so, I agree with your figure of 5.92E+21 kJ for a 1degC rise.

Taking your second post you say that 0.5 kJ per day, a very large estimate as you say, would result in a rise of 1degC in 8.4 days. No dissent there.
If you take a fraction of a Joule, say 0.1J, that would result in a 1degC change in about 115 years. Which is not hugely different than that observed over the past 100 years.

Primarily for the benefit of others who post here, I have not posted this to make any political point nor to draw any specific conclusion other than what I posted above.
WYSIWYG.

kernow · 04-01-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Akria

In point 2 your first post you mention 1,408,700,000 km^3.
I assume that is the known or estimated volume of seawater?
I agree with your conversion to litres as 1.4E+21. I didn't bother to count all the zeros, but I assume they are correct. That being so, I agree with your figure of 5.92E+21 kJ for a 1degC rise.

Taking your second post you say that 0.5 kJ per day, a very large estimate as you say, would result in a rise of 1degC in 8.4 days. No dissent there.
If you take a fraction of a Joule, say 0.1J, that would result in a 1degC change in about 115 years. Which is not hugely different than that observed over the past 100 years.

Primarily for the benefit of others who post here, I have not posted this to make any political point nor to draw any specific conclusion other than what I posted above.
WYSIWYG.

How the hell do you expect thickos like me to understand that jargon?

ops:

03-01-2007, 04:37 PM	#1 (permalink)
Akria Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Grimsby, NELincs Posts: 2,341 Party: None	Hmmm... A rise of two degrees celsius? Has anyone else seen that advert for some TV programme or other stating that a rise of two degrees Celsius would cause mass extinction in the oceans? That may or may not be true - I'm not an expert on the matter - but they strategically neglected to mention one thing: the energy required to do it. I'm an amateur physicist, so I spotted it . 1. One litre of water, I believe, takes 4,200 joules to have a rise in temperature of one degree Celsius. 2. 1,408,700,000 cubic kilometres is about 1.4087 × 10^21 litres, or 14,087,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 3. Now, we know that 4.2 kilojoules are needed to raise one litre of water by one degrees Celsius. Therefore, the total energy required to heat the entire volume of water on the Earth is equal to 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2 kJ. This will give us the amount of energy needed in kilojoules. So let's do it: 1,408,700,000,000,000,000,000 times 4.2: 5,916,540,000,000,000,000,000 kilojoules. Almost six thousand million billion kilojoules. Times that by a thousand to get the answer in joules. And that's to raise the temperature of all the world's water by one degrees Celsius. Double the answer to raise it by two. Bottom line: it's not gonna happen soon. The energy needed is too great. Akria __________________ http://real-democracy.co.uk \| Admin and proud I look forward to the days when people will define themselves by their humanity rather than their country. Users on ignore list: None, and there never shall be.

03-01-2007, 04:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lazyguy Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 394	And that's British billions by the way. Of course, none of this is man-made, so apart from when the Sun explodes, the Earth is going to be nippy forever. __________________ #@~~Lazyguy~~@#

03-01-2007, 04:50 PM	#4 (permalink)
Lazyguy Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 394	I have edited my post. I was simply informing traitorous dogs that this is a thousand times bigger than they will simply sweep under the carpet. __________________ #@~~Lazyguy~~@#

04-01-2007, 09:53 AM	#7 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	I heard on the news the other day that Branson, the super green hero, is starting up a global cheap flights business. I did laugh. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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04-01-2007, 09:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,562	I thought the Green Facists suggested by 2050? (Are they Green because of Jealousy or Naivety) - cut down on CO2 emissions gag a politician start with Gore

04-01-2007, 09:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
Besoeker Uber Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,734	Akria In point 2 your first post you mention 1,408,700,000 km^3. I assume that is the known or estimated volume of seawater? I agree with your conversion to litres as 1.4E+21. I didn't bother to count all the zeros, but I assume they are correct. That being so, I agree with your figure of 5.92E+21 kJ for a 1degC rise. Taking your second post you say that 0.5 kJ per day, a very large estimate as you say, would result in a rise of 1degC in 8.4 days. No dissent there. If you take a fraction of a Joule, say 0.1J, that would result in a 1degC change in about 115 years. Which is not hugely different than that observed over the past 100 years. Primarily for the benefit of others who post here, I have not posted this to make any political point nor to draw any specific conclusion other than what I posted above. WYSIWYG.