How to beat GW Denial

Clippo · 11-12-2006, 01:39 PM

Not directed at any one individual by the way :-

http://www.theecologist.co.uk/archiv...content_id=683

Also in this issue is a detailed discussion of the current state of GW. However, unfortunately, (or fortunately for doubters), one can only read the whole article by paying for it (or reading it for free in WH Smith's as I did).

mkpdavies · 11-12-2006, 01:41 PM

Does the detail actually have some facts in it, or just meaningless propaganda like this link?

Unionist · 11-12-2006, 01:48 PM

I am quite happy to engage in the arguments but I find the use of the term denial offensive. It is part of a conscious strategy by the GW lobby to delegitimise sceptics by calling them 'deniers', presumably like Holocaust deniers or at the very least suggesting irrationality.

I have seen this term used more and more recently as GW campaigners seek to find ways to close down their critics.

mkpdavies · 11-12-2006, 01:54 PM

That's why I use Voodoo in retaliation.

I'm sick of the brainwashing, one sided, biased ******** being mass force fed to a gullable sheeple.

It's not even subtle anymore.

Hartlepool · 11-12-2006, 03:32 PM

We should find a handle for these people who refer to us as "deniers."

In this case we should refer to them as " flakey Global Warming adicts."

Surely,we can make up names for most things that are lies by the moronic Communist European Union suckholes.

Clippo · 11-12-2006, 03:58 PM

mpkdavies wrote:-

Quote:

Does the detail actually have some facts in it, or just meaningless propaganda like this link?

To me it’s thoroughly fact-based, although many of the suggestions of what should be done are based on a much more ‘extreme’ viewpoint (i.e. the situation is actually very much worse than many people are aware of). I don’t necessarily agree with some of these.

But to a person who can’t accept, for what ever reason, that GW is real and is largely caused by mankind’s activities, it would be interpreted as ‘meaningless propaganda’. (They would say that, wouldn't they). In other words, those people who think it’s ‘ meaningless propaganda’ are in psychological ‘denial’

Unionist wrote:-

Quote:

but I find the use of the term denial offensive…. & at the very least suggesting irrationality.

Well, I didn’t coin the word ‘denial’, or deniers, or denial-ers or doubters or sceptics or any other word used in the context of the GW debate, or to describe those people who don’t subscribe to the comprehensive majority world view on other topics. In this case it is being used in a classic psychological context. People can be in ‘denial’ of many situations. As you’ve suggested like Holocaust deniers (are you one of those? If not do you worry about calling one of them that?) – what about alcohol / drug abusers, smokers, Diana’s death, in fact pretty much any conspiracy theorist, etc etc.

I understand that the first step in recognising that one has a problem is to confront the ‘denial’. As for ‘irrational’ well that’s a 2 edged sword – used by both sides in every debate to describe the opposition viewpoint.

I could say that mpkdavies’ use of the words ‘gullable sheeple’ is an insult to, again, the vast majority of people who don’t share his viewpoint, and are very likely a damn sight more intelligent and better informed than him, on this and many other subjects.

If these terms make you uncomfortable I’m sure people of the other view could use much more offensive terms

In the same magazine, is another article:-
http://www.theecologist.co.uk/archiv...content_id=684
deriding the governments response to the Stern report. Of course you may not agree with the doomsday scenario suggested therein but there’s ammunition for you to vent your spleens at Blair/Brown. Also, well down in the article is:-

Quote:

Sweden, without a whimper, has set a course to become oil-free by 2020, with attendant costs to society. Germany, without a whimper, is changing its power supply to wind-generation. These are adult countries, where the electorate is kept aware of the pressing issues of peak oil and energy security alongside climate change. Stern’s review has highlighted the fact that in the UK, as a society we have over the past two decades been rendered politically illiterate by successive governments that have found it convenient to infantilise us.

Why can’t we do things like that in the UK?

mkpdavies · 11-12-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Sweden, without a whimper, has set a course to become oil-free by 2020, with attendant costs to society. Germany, without a whimper, is changing its power supply to wind-generation. These are adult countries, where the electorate is kept aware of the pressing issues of peak oil and energy security alongside climate change. Stern’s review has highlighted the fact that in the UK, as a society we have over the past two decades been rendered politically illiterate by successive governments that have found it convenient to infantilise us.

I agree with that bit to some extent. However,,

Quote:

Germany, without a whimper, is changing its power supply to wind-generation.

Well they will be ****** then.

Quote:

pressing issues of peak oil

No foundation this is happening at all yet, but agree we should look to shift our reliance from it anyway.

Quote:

Stern’s review has highlighted

Nothing other than some very weak economics built upon some absurd and extreme assumptions, that are all based on dubious pseudo science in the first place.

Thankfully, more and more people are beginning to wake up and smell that coffee.

Unionist · 11-12-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clippo

Unionist wrote:-

Quote:

but I find the use of the term denial offensive…. & at the very least suggesting irrationality.

Well, I didn’t coin the word ‘denial’, or deniers, or denial-ers or doubters or sceptics or any other word used in the context of the GW debate, or to describe those people who don’t subscribe to the comprehensive majority world view on other topics. In this case it is being used in a classic psychological context. People can be in ‘denial’ of many situations. As you’ve suggested like Holocaust deniers (are you one of those? If not do you worry about calling one of them that?) – what about alcohol / drug abusers, smokers, Diana’s death, in fact pretty much any conspiracy theorist, etc etc.

You miss the point. The Holocaust is a well proven historical fact and denial of this is completely wrong and would usually be associated with anti-Semitism. Man-made global warming is a theory that is open to legitimate argument. To suggest any sort of equivalence is to equate denial of the evidence in one case with searching for the evidence in another.

I did not at all suggest that you coined the term but rather that the term was coined to provoke the sort of repulsion that we all feel for Holocaust denial and thus delegitimise debate. To suggest that those who do not buy into the GW thesis are in denial is a gross insult since they are simply trying to establish the validity or otherwise of the evidence.

The term also cheapens the true examples of 'denial' in the case (for example) of those who deny the historical fact of the Holocaust.

Besoeker · 11-12-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clippo

Why can’t we do things like that in the UK?

Clippo
We can, but one needs to understand scale. And techinal limitations.
I have a commercial interest renewable energy.
Around 1970, we designed and manufactured a system for a paper mill that used their Gilkes water turbine and dc generator to put some energy back into their ac network. It is still in operation. And supplies less than 3% of their total energy usage.
I did the technical feasibility study on wave power for the first commercially funded installation in UK.
Google my name and the first entry is a biofuel project.

In short, I have some experience of renewables.
But they are just a drop in the bucket.

Hartlepool · 12-12-2006, 08:41 AM

Every little bit helps,said the old lady who ****** in the sea. :wink:

11-12-2006, 01:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Clippo Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cheshire Posts: 1,776	How to beat GW Denial Not directed at any one individual by the way :- http://www.theecologist.co.uk/archiv...content_id=683 Also in this issue is a detailed discussion of the current state of GW. However, unfortunately, (or fortunately for doubters), one can only read the whole article by paying for it (or reading it for free in WH Smith's as I did).

11-12-2006, 01:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	Does the detail actually have some facts in it, or just meaningless propaganda like this link? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

11-12-2006, 01:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	That's why I use Voodoo in retaliation. I'm sick of the brainwashing, one sided, biased ******** being mass force fed to a gullable sheeple. It's not even subtle anymore. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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11-12-2006, 01:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Unionist Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,003	I am quite happy to engage in the arguments but I find the use of the term denial offensive. It is part of a conscious strategy by the GW lobby to delegitimise sceptics by calling them 'deniers', presumably like Holocaust deniers or at the very least suggesting irrationality. I have seen this term used more and more recently as GW campaigners seek to find ways to close down their critics.

11-12-2006, 03:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,413	We should find a handle for these people who refer to us as "deniers." In this case we should refer to them as " flakey Global Warming adicts." Surely,we can make up names for most things that are lies by the moronic Communist European Union suckholes.

12-12-2006, 08:41 AM	#10 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,413	Every little bit helps,said the old lady who ****** in the sea. :wink: