Ask the English?...Oh No that is far too dangerous!

Englander 1 · 07-05-2008, 10:35 PM

Good to hear it...well lets hope your posts become a little more informed and constructive...England Expects!.....that is what we all care about...isnt it?

Richard the Lionheart · 07-05-2008, 10:38 PM

of course it is, and you are right, but I wanted to hear what your views were on an independence referendum. Free England would happily accept a federal UK but would much prefer an independent England. I was keen to know what your position on it is.

cassie · 07-05-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart

Oh, I have, but this is a serious question which you have failed to respond to. Are you evading the issue? The question I posed is meant to encourage serious debate.

Yes, it is a serious - and a valid - question, but you're unlikely to get the kind of answer you want for two reasons: (1) the EDP's position is not as you see and describe it; and (2) the answer would be different according to the circumstances of the time. This matter of timing or sequence is an element which you discount Richard, which you are perfectly entitled to do, but it is not reasonable to criticise others who do not see the situation in the static way in which you seem to.

Perhaps I can illustrate the effect of timing on an answer? Were a chief executive to publicly admit that his company was in grave financial difficulties, he would immediately lose any opportunity to continue to try to save his company and it would be effectively bankrupt. Similarly, there are situations in politics when some adjudge it wiser to hold a particular position, which is not to say that they oppose other positions but regard them as unsuitable at present.

You keep trying to drive the EDP into restricted positions, which was fair enough when you were a member. However, you are no longer a member, but you now have a party which we understand fully reflects your position AND your own section on this forum. Do I need to go on . . . ?

As an ex-member of the EDP, I'm pretty sure what would be the party line should such a referendum be called, but there is no obligation to state it just now, there really is not!

---------------------------------

Akria · 08-05-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Still peddling this wet line I see! Tell us: how does one define oneself by one's humanity? In particular, could you concentrate on why 'humanity' is at variance with 'nationality'?

Then, if you have the time, perhaps you'll say something relevant to this thread, which is about why 85% of the UK's voters in England are permanently prevented from recording collective opinions about important constitutional issues? Presumably, your 'humanity' is supportive of democracy?

__________________________

Interesting that you have avoided my post on the other thread, and that you consistently miss my point with things.

Putting humanity first sometimes means putting your nation second, and only occasionally do the two - humanity and your nation - coincide.

As for defining oneself by one's humanity: essentially quit with the stupid and irrational nationalism and embrace the fact that we are all human.

cassie, could I ask you to do something?
Look down at your body and tell me what you see.

Do you see a human being first or do you see an Englishman?

If the latter then I beg to know how, given that there are no distinguishing characteristics for the English.

And how are they prevented from doing so? The House of Commons is made up in the large majority by English MPs. We are hardly unrepresented in the government.
Democracy is a natural part of humanity, although nowadays we must be content more with a vague representative style of government than an actual democracy, as large populations render true democracy impossible.

Northumbrian · 08-05-2008, 10:51 PM

So Akria - I take it you'll be donating plenty of money to Burma following the devastation of the cyclone?

Akria · 08-05-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northumbrian

So Akria - I take it you'll be donating plenty of money to Burma following the devastation of the cyclone?

If I had any money to speak of then yes, I would.

Northumbrian · 08-05-2008, 10:56 PM

[quote=Akria;498438]
Do you see a human being first or do you see an Englishman?

If the latter then I beg to know how, given that there are no distinguishing characteristics for the English.

And how are they prevented from doing so? The House of Commons is made up in the large majority by English MPs. We are hardly unrepresented in the government.

QUOTE]

But by your definition they are human as opposed to English. So if the House of Commons was full of French MPs we would be equally represented.

Akria · 08-05-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northumbrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

Do you see a human being first or do you see an Englishman?

If the latter then I beg to know how, given that there are no distinguishing characteristics for the English.

And how are they prevented from doing so? The House of Commons is made up in the large majority by English MPs. We are hardly unrepresented in the government.

But by your definition they are human as opposed to English. So if the House of Commons was full of French MPs we would be equally represented.

We would indeed, if we chose them.
Or are you saying that only the English can have loyalty to their English voters?

cassie · 09-05-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

Putting humanity first sometimes means putting your nation second, and only occasionally do the two - humanity and your nation - coincide.

As for defining oneself by one's humanity: essentially quit with the stupid and irrational nationalism and embrace the fact that we are all human.

cassie, could I ask you to do something?
Look down at your body and tell me what you see.

Do you see a human being first or do you see an Englishman?

If the latter then I beg to know how, given that there are no distinguishing characteristics for the English.

And how are they prevented from doing so? The House of Commons is made up in the large majority by English MPs. We are hardly unrepresented in the government.
Democracy is a natural part of humanity, although nowadays we must be content more with a vague representative style of government than an actual democracy, as large populations render true democracy impossible.

Nothing to say which is relevant to this thread then!

I'll bet you feel so morally superior - you certainly appear to be unduly sanctimonious.

Too many cranks clutter up forums like this inflicting their unwanted, weird ideas on others.

Be a good chap Akria, and take your so called humanity elsewhere, it gets in the way of a good, honest debate!

-----------------------------------------

Akria · 11-05-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Nothing to say which is relevant to this thread then!

I'll bet you feel so morally superior - you certainly appear to be unduly sanctimonious.

Too many cranks clutter up forums like this inflicting their unwanted, weird ideas on others.

Be a good chap Akria, and take your so called humanity elsewhere, it gets in the way of a good, honest debate!

-----------------------------------------

If my post was not relevant to this thread then neither was yours to which I was simply replying.

07-05-2008, 10:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
Englander 1 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: WARWICKSHIRE Posts: 376	Good to hear it...well lets hope your posts become a little more informed and constructive...England Expects!.....that is what we all care about...isnt it? __________________ "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ENGLAND." - Sir Winston Churchill

07-05-2008, 10:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Richard the Lionheart Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 579 Party: Free England Party	of course it is, and you are right, but I wanted to hear what your views were on an independence referendum. Free England would happily accept a federal UK but would much prefer an independent England. I was keen to know what your position on it is. __________________ The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

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08-05-2008, 10:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
Northumbrian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England Posts: 1,011	So Akria - I take it you'll be donating plenty of money to Burma following the devastation of the cyclone?

08-05-2008, 10:56 PM	#17 (permalink)
Northumbrian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England Posts: 1,011	[quote=Akria;498438] Do you see a human being first or do you see an Englishman? If the latter then I beg to know how, given that there are no distinguishing characteristics for the English. And how are they prevented from doing so? The House of Commons is made up in the large majority by English MPs. We are hardly unrepresented in the government. QUOTE] But by your definition they are human as opposed to English. So if the House of Commons was full of French MPs we would be equally represented.