Northumbrian

If a small country like Israel can defend itself...

In any case, I wouldn't have thought a country like Scotland would have many enemies.

cassie

I see no reason why an independent Scotland could not be a member of the EU in its own right just as the Czech and Slovak republics (for example) were able to join after they had separated. Indeed, those promoting separation for England cite the alleged desire in Scotland for continued EU membership as one of the advantages for England, enabling the English more easily to divest themselves of EU membership!

However, what the precise mechanics would be I really do not know. It is be borne in mind that, to join the EU, an applicant state must meet certain specified criteria, one of which now is to adopt the Euro. I do not know whether Scotland would meet all the other criteria.

It seems to me that, as such a situation develops in the wake of (say) clear majorities in both England and Scotland for Scotland if that is what she wishes to leave the UK, there will be contact with both the EU Council of Ministers and the EU Commission about the consequences. In theory, it is possible for Scotland and the rest of the UK to remain in separate membership of the EU, but many of us believe that both the EU Commission and other EU Members states will be as awkward as possible in order to draw out any processes and to retain England & Co in membership as long as possible quite simply because we are a net contributor!

Ultimately, it is our status as net contributor which will enable us to say: "Up with this we will no longer put and, if you don't reach a settlement with us by such and such date, we will regard ourselves as no longer members and contributors with immediate effect!" In the meantime, we would expect our politicians to be negotiating alternative arrangements with EFTA (or whatever it's called nowadays), the North America mob and a number of Commonwealth Member countries.


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shagpile

Pretty much agree with that Cassie, although, if Scotland had to re-apply for EU membership, so surely would the 'rump of the UK'. Either both would be eligible or neither.

I do not see the relevance of 'the rump of the UK' having a say on Scottish independence. It's up to the Scots. Again, how would a NO vote from England, Wales or NI be relevant or binding on the Scots?

cassie

I agree that the vote in Scotland is crucial and, therefore, would be expected to prevail over and above a contrary result elsewhere in the UK.

However, if the turnout in Scotland was low - say 30% - and the result was 50.1% in favour, compared with a high turnout in England - say 70% - and the result was 55% against Scottish independence, very careful consideration would need to be given by Parliament bearing in mind that the electorate in Scotland is some 3.9 million and in England nearly 38 million, of which a proportion is emigre Scots.

A more definitive result might be obtained by re-running the referendum within a short time, which would enable those who did not take the matter seriously and who abstained to participate in a second ballot.

Incidentally, given that the total population of Scotland is around 5 million and that of the rest of the UK exceeds 55 million, your use of the word 'rump' is both misleading and inaccurate but, I suppose, to be expected from someone whose first language is not English.




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Britannist

Scotland is better of under the protection of the British armed forces - as we all are.

ANGLO-STAFFS

Just a small point. As Scotland have the bases and missile storage dumps would they get to keep the Nuki Subs?

cassie

According to Salmond, they want rid of them!

We'll have 'em back with our English Armed Forces!


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Northumbrian

From whom? The only threats we have are from civilians setting off bombs.

shagpile

I also thought along those lines when I first read that expression. However, I never coined the phrase. Anyway language evolves does it not?

shagpile

Irrespective of the turnout, and size of margin for independence. The correct response from Westminster (as required by international law, and the treaties the UK is signatory to) would be to negotiate that wish for independence with the Scottish Parliament.

It does not matter what ex-pat Scots wish for, unless their domicile and residence is in Scotland.

If I for example wish to paint my toilet seat an awful shade of pink, what business of the neighbours would it be. It might be of importance to members of my family, IF THEY LIVED WITH ME.