Britannist

The armed forces of the UK would defend the Scottish part of the UK - do you think the EU military wing now under construction would do such a thing? I don't.

cassie

Actual figures per the Electoral Commission:

Yes: 51.6%
No: 48.4%
Turnout: 63.8%

The Electoral Commission : Referendums : Past UK referendums : Scotland - 1979


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Britannist

Thank you for those useful figures, Cassie, regarding the 1979 Scottish Assembly referendum.

Maybe one day England will have her first ever national referendum (on a Constitutional matter). As we know, England is the only part of the UK never to have had a referendum of her own on any matter.

cassie

It's not a case of the UK being good, but more that the EU is so much worse!

There is too much evidence that the core of individuals exercising power in the EU are hostile to Great Britain, and that includes Scotland. Not only that, they are either incompetent or very dictatorial or both! Take the matter of the earlier EU Constitution. Had this EU gang been honest and upright, they would have agreed a single date upon which all members states holding referenda on the issue (as distinct from their respective parliaments settling it as in the case of Germany, which was the scheme adopted the second time around) would have held them simultaneously. Then, no member state would have been influenced by the outcome of earlier referenda.

Instead, they plotted to hold them consecutively, with the Spanish going first. They anticipated that the Spanish would vote to adopt the Constitution and all other referenda would follow suit in a snowball effect. How devious, how wrong, how incompetent, but it exposed the manipulative contempt they have for ordinary citizens!

The rest is history! Not only did these devious schemers fail to achieve their goal, but they then contemptuously set aside the results, and have contrived to impose that Constitution on us under a different guise. This time they have not gone through the pretence of consulting EU voters directly, save for Ireland. One theory about Aherne stepping down is to avoid prejudicing the referendum there with which he is closely associated. No doubt the 5 million people there will be bought off in some way with a generous grant, just as the 1.7 million in Northern Ireland were bought off by the Blair Government with £53 billion to re-instate the NI Assembly!

Now, do you really think it is prudent to have a cabal like that in charge of your security and defence? They'd sacrifice huge numbers of us if they thought it would save their necks.


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Northumbrian

Sorry, but there is a little document produced in 1707 titled 'Act of Union'. If that's no longer valid then there's no Union.

cassie

In 1707, England & Wales united with Scotland. You also forgot the Act of 1801.

Legislation is subordinate to subsequent legislation where it applies.




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Northumbrian

But the subsequent legislation is for Great Britain and Northern Ireland. England (and Wales) isn't Great Britain.

I seem to have had this conversation a few times. I'm sure they'd be plenty of lawyers who would agree with me. Should we ask some?

Britannist

I have to state that you are wrong, Northumbrian. I know that you do not like the UK and want it to go - but (thank goodness) the United Kingdom would still exist should Scotland quit it.

England was in Union with Wales before The Act of Union with Scotland of 1707. Consequently, the ancient Union of Wales and England would continue should The Act Of Union between Scotland and England/Wales be ended. The Act Of Union 1707 does not cover the Union of England and Wales which already existed at the time of The Act Of Union of England/Wales with Scotland. The 1707 Act refers to England/Wales in Union with Scotland.

So, if Scotland quit the UK and The Act Of Union of 1707 were dissolved it leaves the following:

England and Wales in Union with each other.

Northern Ireland in Union with a Great Britain which would not include Scotland but which would include Wales and England.

In other words, a Union of England, Wales and Northern Ireland - the United Kingdom without Scotland.

And before you try to tell us that The Act of Union of Ireland with Great Britain would cease to exist if Scotland quit the UK: The Act of Union of Ireland with Great Britain survived the departure from the UK of the land area which now calls itself the Irish Republic and it (what is now The Act of Union of Northern Ireland with Great Britain) would survive the departure of Scotland from the UK.

Britannist

Yes it is.

Great Britain does not cease to exist if Scotland ended Union with England/Wales and Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland is not the whole of Ireland - but The Act Of Union of Ireland and Great Britain (GB) still exists even thought about 70% of Ireland is no longer in the UK.

Likewise, if Scotland (about 40% of the land area of Great Britain) quit the UK, Northern Ireland - through the 1801 Act of Union of Ireland with Great Britain - would remain in Union with the remaining 60% of Great Britain (England and Wales).

Britannist

Yes - and you want the UK to end and do not like the fact that it would continue (as it should do) in the event of Scotland quitting it.

The Union of the UK would carry on if Scotland quit it - because England and Wales were in Union with each other before they formed a Union with Scotland in 1707 and because Northern Ireland (through The 1801 Act of Union of Great Britain and Ireland) has remained a part of the UK after the departure of 70% of Ireland from the UK and would remain a part of the Union of the UK in the event of 40% of Great Britain (Scotland) quitting the UK.

Apart from the two Acts of Union - the fact is that if England, Wales and Northern Ireland want Union - which they do - they will have it. Even if that meant implementing a new Act of Union in the event of Scotland pulling out of the UK.

I might just add that I want Scotland to remain a part of the UK: a Union of the UK in which England has an English Parliament to match the powers of the one in Scotland.