Ea of Dune

Really so you as a Cornish-Scot into decentralisation have decided to talk on behalf of the English nationalist community now as well. Yes there are some who do believe Cornwall should be part of an independent Kingdom and some who don't. Personally I am happy for the Cornish to go their own way.

Really now who are you people? Do you mean the English by any chance, or is that deliberatly obfuscated comment that can be twisted depending on my response?

Where have I said I want to remove Cornish seperatist feeling? And as Euroscep said, the so called "Celt" nationalism seems to be defined by hating the English more often then not. I've encountered it personally and frankly it's pathetic.
I'd rather not have an English state with any of the so called Celtic countries involved in any manner thanks and I believe a lot of English people feel the same. This isn't out of some kind of hatred of you, but a weariness that comes from having to listen to ill educated populist Braveheart opinions.
Some of the idiots I have encountered make me ashamed to say that my grandfathers family came from Glasgow to be honest.

Ea of dune

Westcountryman

Yes there is debate.

See here: Constitutional status of Cornwall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You might want to read the pro-England argument.

I agree that it has a unique culture, but then you find me a County in the UK that doesn't. York and Yorkshire have a very proud culture and history, should they be separate?

I don't dispute that people consider themselves Cornish. I dispute your assertion that this automatically translates into nationalism and support for an assembly.

__________________
Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

BonnieDundee

I feel free to scrutinise the motives of those I debate with.



I mean rabid nationalists.

Well old wounds die hard, but it is not something I'm interested in.

And some of the anti-Scottish bigotry makes me ashamed of the little English blood I have. It goes both ways, but I personally am not Anglophobic but I don't care for random, basically racist or ethnic attacks on Scots.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

BonnieDundee

I have and it proves my point. The debate is not about its status but about the house of commons absolutism.



They should have more autonomy if they want it. Why not?

And you are incorrect.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Ea of Dune

Apparently so, funny how those wounds are often only English dealt wounds, or considered English even if they aren't but the rabid Celt nationalists never seem ones for constructive historical debate in my opinion.
Anyway it's all water under the bridge to be honest, none of us can change the past.

It's my personal opinion that the backlash experienced by Scots at the moment is thanks to the goading of certain folk north of the border fueled by idiots like Mel Gibson.

I firmly believe only seperation of the UK can solve this issue now.

Ea of dune

Westcountryman

Not all.

• It has been argued that Cornwall was absorbed into England rather than conquered. (Hastings, Adrian (1997) The construction of nationhood: ethnicity, religion, and nationalism (Cambridge))

• Several English charters dating from before 1066 show the king of England exercising effective power in Cornwall as in any other part of England. For example, in 960 King Eadgar gave land in "Tiwaernhel" to one of his thanes (Sawyer charters, #684).
• From the mid-ninth century the Cornish Church acknowledged the jurisdiction of the Archbishop of Canterbury, and in the 10th century the English king Athelstan created a diocese of Cornwall centred on St Germans. In 1050, King Eadward subsumed the diocese of Cornwall under that of Exeter (Sawyer 1021).
• In 1051, Cornwall appears among the territories granted as an earldom to Earl Odda after the forfeiture of the earldoms of Godwin, Earl of Wessex and his sons, suggesting that Cornwall had by then been integrated into the normal English system of local government as part of the earldom of Wessex.

• In the Domesday survey of manors in 1086, Cornwall is dealt as a comitatus, a Medieval Latin term, which is generally equated with the English word "county", or the Anglo-Saxon scir (shire). Notably the Domesday Survey included parts of modern day Wales, but excluded some areas of northern England such as much of Westmorland, Cumberland, Northumberland and County Durham, and even some parts of Lancashire, for they were under Scottish rule at that time. The Domesday Book also excludes London and Winchester, whether these particular omissions are deliberate or reflect a loss of records is unknown.

• The records of the medieval eyres, the court sessions of the king’s itinerant judges. Maitland FW (1888) Select pleas of the crown prints examples from Cornwall. The eyre records show Cornwall and England with common judicial arrangements from the police duties of tithings at the lowest level of administration to the highest itinerant courts.
• The Patent Rolls which inter alia record the King and his council governing Cornwall after the creation of the Dukedom in 1337. Examples are the King granting licences to trade to people in Cornwall in 1364, the Duke of Cornwall complaining in 1371 to the King's Council about offences by some local men in Cornwall, and in 1380 the King's Council ordering the Sheriff of Cornwall to arrest and imprison an offender.

• The 1337 charters describe Cornwall as a county, using the same word (comitatus) as that used to describe other counties such as Devon and Surrey.
• Medieval taxes such as the Papal 1291 taxation and the 1377 poll tax.

• The subsidies/taxes and musters of the Tudor period.

• The grants of fairs and markets in Cornwall by the king; for example, Penzance in 1406.

If this was just about autonomy I might agree with you. You seem more intent on feeding Cornish nationalism. I've said before that I'd support more devolved powers for County Councils, but I'd oppose any effort to get Cornwall an assembly.

Incorrect in my analysis, or incorrect in disputing your assertion?

__________________
Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

BonnieDundee

Well I certainly believe it was England that was more often in the wrong, a quick reading of history seems to show this, although the rest were far from blameless. But it something which doesn't interest me.


The general gist of his film was correct. An English King did in fact decide to conquer the Scots. Gibson is not an idiot due to that. But I don't think it matters today. I think whatever the reason this "backlash" is disgusting and disturbing.

I completely accept modern archeology which even seems to suggest there is little racial difference between English and the "Celts".

I believe in regional autonomy but keeping the union.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

BonnieDundee

Just about none of those is a reasonable argument against Cornwall's ancient rights. Cornwall is like what in France were pays-d'etat and the normal counties are like the pays d'election.


I'm not a nationalist and want autonomy. I don't want Cornish nationalism or any nationalism but I think Cornwall should be treated like Scotland and Wales. If more power goes to county councils then what is wrong with Cornwall being like Wales? I can only think of English nationalism being against it.

Your analysis.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Ea of Dune

God but if we made a movie about how Hitler was a nice vegetarian who loved his dog and building new motorways we could say the general gist was correct, but it wouldn't be an accurate appraisle of the situation would. Regardless if you personally find it interesting or not, enough Scots did to have that statue of Gibson errected and stuck in a cage lol!

Ea of dune

BonnieDundee

But the film was a relatively accurate appraisle of the situation. The English King was the aggressor, he conquered Wales and tried to do the same for Scotland. It doesn't matter to me but that was the realistic historical situation. Not that the Scots were angels of course. I dislike the way the Western highlands were forced into Scotland and how the Lordship of the Isles was removed.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.