cassie

Yes, but NOT ethnicity nor nationality!

I suppose that's why this unhelpfully misleading thread attracts confused racialists such as you!

No doubt you're yet another evangelising BNP supporter?


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Mikeuk

500 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago, even 20 years ago this would have been accepted as a simple fact; not simply by 'far right racists' but by people of every political complexion and none.

This would not necessarily entail some kind of moral judgment on any black brown or yellow person who happened to live in England. It would simply be taken as a commonsense and useful statement.

In the same way it would not be helpful or informative to describe an Anglo-Saxon with Chinese citizenship as 'a Chinaman'. It would, OTOH, be helpful to take time out to describe him as a Chinese citizen of British origin.

The truth, sadly, implies difference and division, but it remains the truth. The alternative implies cosy unity, but it is a falsehood, and therefore pernicious.

Perhaps Cassie will explain why the judgment of centuries of tradition must now be set aside in favour of the construct he advocates with such peculiar passion.

Let's hope that it's not simply that he is terrified of being branded a 'racist'

Frith

In terms of citizenship, and not race or ethnicity, everyone who is a citizen of a country should be welcome at a demo or other public event if they, as citizens, support this. People don't have to be of the ethnicity or race of the natives to support the continued prosperity of the country of their citizenship.

But the issues revolving round and centring on specifically English matters (or Scottish or pygmy or whatever) are the priority of those who feel ethnically and therefore mostly racially English. But this isn't set in stone and if, say, a Pakistani Muslim or an Indian Hindu or a Chinese Buddhist felt so intensely about English cultural matters that he or she wanted to attend an event specifically devoted to them then it is unlikely that anyone would protest or even mind. It would, however, be unlikely that anyone of this kind would want to attend as the event would not be in his or her general interest.

The general interest issues of a country and its people as a whole are not always the same as the specific interests and concerns of ethnic groups. I wouldn't attend a Zulu rights event, but I might out of interest attend a Zulu cultural festival and Zulus out of a similar interest might attend one of mine. I wouldn't feel at home voting for their ethnic issues as that would not be polite unless I was supporting them as allies for a similar cause.

There is, or should be, a certain politeness connected to these matters and the barging in on people of differing ethnic groups and sensibilities shouldn't become a hammer with which to beat political issues over the head or knock down genuine ethnic concerns on social and cultural issues as well as on the subject of political rights.

I can support the Tibetans or the Dali Lama politely as a foreigner who is interested in their plight, but I cannot go chaining myself to posts and demanding their freedom the way a genuine Tibetan can. It just isn't polite. I'm not a Tibetan and they must take the front line in their struggle.

The only reason why I'm so strident about English issues and British issues is because these are my people and I am also a northern European so this area of Europe and its people are my immediate cultural, political and ethnic concern. I feel I cannot barge in on the Italians or the Spanish or the Greeks. I can support them discreetly from a polite distance but I cannot go splattering myself to their cause. It just isn't done.

I think all immigrant populations realise this. But this thread is about the "mixed race" individuals who might consider themselves English. In your opinion, cassie, these are more English than I am because they reside in England. I suppose in a civic way this is true and you would therefore welcome them and any other full blooded immigrants on the English demo rather than have the support of someone like me as they live there and are therefore more English than I am in your book. You and I aren't reading the same book, of course, but your view is the general all-purpose multiculturalist view so you must decide who will be cast out of your English demo. And where you are concerned it will always be those who want a Union and those who want a union can be any colour or creed under the sun as long as they have what you called "an English attitude". I have one of those, of course, as it springs directly from the gene pool, but you don't care much for us, you prefer the immediate gratification of a support group so you can get whatever it is you happen to want. So I have to be absent from support for these demos because in your book I am a "foreigner", even though my people have come from northern Europe for thousands of years and my English families go back before the Norman conquest. I am the foreigner and a half Pakistani Irishman would be more English than I and therefore welcome on your demo because he happened to reside in the country of my ethnic folk group. You think I am just a schizophrenic, delusional human (and I quote), but then you seem to think that of everyone who has a point of view different from yours.

I think too much is being made of who is able to go where and vote for what at the moment. If you allow yourselves to be dragged into this very Marxist idea of universalism you won't be able to have an English or a Scottish or a Welsh movement because the argument of oneness will always be there to cancel out the issue of ethnicity in terms of identity and survival. "We are all human beings" will take precedence and any English or French or Pygmy hopes of getting justice for a group will evaporate in the mists of hippy love culture that now infuse all attempts to create or preserve identities.

The race issue and the culture issue have become entangled in the human and the globalization issues. We simply aren't really allowed to exist as anything other than mere human. This is our greatest love object and our most supreme accomplishment. Even the sexes are being melted into it. We may not be either male or female, we must just be human. Humanity and its church of multiculturalism is the ruling ideology. Anyone who dares to say "ahem" will be banished like Adam to the desert outside happiness land there to suffer and toil and become impoverished until he says sorry. Until he apologises for his impudence and his hubris and admits his great error in daring to imagine that he might belong to someone or something. A mortal sin in the new religion. Once it was Thou shalt belong only to God. Now it's thou shalt belong only to humanity.

So after thousands of years of bloodshed and strife, of struggle and aspiration to become more than a mere animal, humanity has become again the slave of its own ideas and has those chains back on its ankles and that albatross back around its neck. The individual is dead, long live the hive.

cassie

I suggest that YOU revert to Post#96 and try to understand [if you can] what I have posted thereafter. You might then see that Imperium has put up his own Aunt Sallies for shooting at. I have no intention of addressing assertions which I did not make here. You ask Imperium why he said made such irrelevant remarks ~ not me!

As for your silly remark: "Perhaps Cassie will explain why the judgment of centuries of tradition must now be set aside in favour of the construct he advocates with such peculiar passion." ~ again I have no intention of addressing anything so asinine! The "judgement of centuries of tradition" indeed! Who knows what you're obsessing about here or why?




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Frith

Cassie, why do you put smilies where you should put growlies?