Britannist

I do not agree with your words above - I thought that you were supposed to be pro-England: your words above appear to be negative regarding English history.

And if Wales wanted to break with link with England (one which, as you know, was established long before Scotland helped form what is now the UK) then could do so tomorrow.

They choose, wisely, to remain with England, Scotland and Northern Ireland in the Union of the UK.

Northumbrian

I'm negative in the matter of military aggression and imperialism. You sound like one of those types who regrets us no longer having an empire.

Britannist

I don't want to criticise you Northumbrian so please don't get annoyed - but your remark earlier in this thread about Wales (quote - "A link forged by English military superiority and suppression. Am I supposed to be proud of that?" - end of quote) could have come from a member of the europhile Welsh so-called 'National' Party .

Northumbrian

Now that's interesting. But there are many instances of English (and British) history where there is cause for pride, but there also occasions where there is not. You have to look at things objectively.

Britannist

I do . Which is why I do not criticise my own nation of England's history and record and I why I also support the ancient link between Wales and England .

Richard the Lionheart

I think nowadays people want to put some of their past behind them and build new modern states. They want to look forward rather than back. There will always be links between the home nations of the UK, but I believe that the nationalists in Scotland and Wales want to build a truly national identity for their people rather than relate to the British identity which, let's face it, is a dying concept. I respect the past immensly (I am a history grad) but I also believe in looking to the future. I think it's time to let go of the past and look forward. Respect the past yes, and learn from it, but build for the future.

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The Free England Party - England's Premier Nationalist Party
www.freeengland.com .....Serious about England

Millennium3

I agree particularly with your final two sentences.

Since the end of the middle ages and the beginning of nation states, conquest of other nations was considered the most natural thing to do. Britain just happened to be very good at it. We are in another era now [has it been named?] when, since WW2, it has slowly dawned that it is no longer feasible [and to the majority - right] to conquer other states with military force - this process is now achieved by economic might.

It is possible that Labour's undemocratic ratification of the Lisbon Treaty is driven purely by the Scottish dominated party as they know that Scotland and Wales would not be able to achieve independence without the UK being greatly subservient to a strong EU. Also, without the EU, these countries would probably shrink from the concept of being independent without the protection of the EU.

For me, the people of any island should stick together under a single government for defence purposes, although I would choose to devolve power to the lowest level possible.

cassie

I'm afraid your reaction is very superficial and very irrelevant Northumbrian! Who cares whether you should be proud of the links between England and Wales?

Besides, if you are really so bothered about the ill treatment of the Welsh, you don't need to go back seven hundred or so years. The Welsh have been exploited much more recently, right up to the 20th Century!

Yes! I refer to the coal mines and the exploitation inflicted by mine owners both English and WELSH! More recently, there was the imposition of reservoirs and flooding of Welsh villages to provide water for the north west of England.

You ought also to remember that the bad deeds of history attributed to 'the English' were perpetrated by those at the top of the pile! For example, the Scots frequently allude to the cruelty of the English at Culloden and in the aftermath, but what was the background of the man largely responsible, the Duke of Cumberland? I suggest that he was much more German than English, but it doesn't stop anti-English bigots from representing him and his actions as essentially English in character . . . and so it goes on. As a true English nationalist, I do not accept such charges!

What is relevant now is the general attitude of the Welsh. As Richard says, no one wants to see their identity subsumed by so called 'Britishness' any more than one wants English identity to be similarly subsumed!

I think Millennium3 has the right approach, especially the bit about devolving power to the lowest level possible.



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Smidgey

So to Britannist and Cassie, you wouldn't be critical of your own nations history? I would be critical of both Scottish and British history.

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How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

cassie

Bully for you! What has the undescribed, undefined history to which you refer to do with what those alive today want?

I guess you are another of those who wants to dump responsibility for the acts of others in another age on those of us in the present? You know, like your daft compatriot who apologised for slavery - done by other people on other people!

Move on!

PISH!

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