English Democrats replace UKIP as premier Eurosceptic Party

Kentishman · 22-02-2008, 08:13 PM

Dartford is a good barometer of the various fortunes of UKIP v's English Democrats.

2003 & 2004 demostrated the rise of UKIP both in Dartford and Nationally,

By 2008 UKIP is simply a sad addition to the Ballot paper attracting just 19 Votes less then 1% of the poll.

More and more Former UKippers are joining the English Democrats as the only serious hope

English Democrats/New England
May 2003 Council election: New England Party - 276 Votes (1 Candidate)
June 2004 European election: English Democrats - 529 Votes (1 Candidate)
May 2005 General election: New England Party - 1,224 Votes (1 Candidate)
July 2006 - 1 x By Election; New England Party - 174 Votes (1 Candidate)
May 2007 Council elections: English Democrats - 5,545 Votes (20 Candidates)
Feb 2008 - 1 x By Election; English Democrats - 198 Votes (1 Candidate)

UKIP
May 2003 Council election: UKIP - 1,935 Votes (14 Candidates)
June 2004 European election: UKIP - 4,628 Votes (1 Candidate)
May 2005 General election: UKIP - 1,407 Votes (1 Candidate)
July 2006 - 1 x By Election UKIP - 179 Votes (1 Candidate)
May 2007 Council elections: UKIP - 664 Votes (4 Candidates)
Feb 2008 - 1 x By Election; English Democrats - 19 Votes (1 Candidate)

Eurosceptic Atlanticist · 22-02-2008, 08:20 PM

We'll see when it comes to the EU and General Elections.

Kentishman · 22-02-2008, 08:36 PM

London First in May 2008 will be a true test.

eublues · 22-02-2008, 08:54 PM

"English First, British Second"

It that really a political slogan?
What does it mean?

Tom Wilde · 22-02-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentishman

English Democrats replace UKIP as premier Eurosceptic Party.

Kenty, I don't mean to be rude, but to base such a comment on a handful of local council byelection result in your strongest area is totally barking! The Liberal Party actually won a local council byelection last summer (as opposed to coming third or whatever it was you just managed). Does that mean the Liberal Party is the "premier Eurosceptic Party"? I do hope so. Do let me know!

Kentishman · 22-02-2008, 09:24 PM

English Demcorats have excellent links to the Liberal Party, and indeed the Liberal Party is the premier Eurosceptic Party in some areas of mainly England, apart from Leicester I don't believe our supporter conflict.

I understand the Liberal Party is not standing in London this year, but if it is we need to start communications immediately as we have many shared policies including:-

No to ID Cards
Euro Sceptic
Pro-Federal UK

Please feel free to PM me

Richard the Lionheart · 22-02-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentishman

English Demcorats have excellent links to the Liberal Party, and indeed the Liberal Party is the premier Eurosceptic Party in some areas of mainly England, apart from Leicester I don't believe our supporter conflict.

I understand the Liberal Party is not standing in London this year, but if it is we need to start communications immediately as we have many shared policies including:-

No to ID Cards
Euro Sceptic
Pro-Federal UK

Please feel free to PM me

The term pro-Federal UK as used here by a senior EDP member should be duly noted by all English nationalists.

Kentishman · 22-02-2008, 09:54 PM

If the English Democrats was a Pro-Independence Party, then you would not have left, and set up a New party, that you are so keen to tell us all about.

A Federal UK with Fiscal Automony for England with an English Parliament is the Official Position of the English Democrats as confirmed Democratically by the membership at the Last General Meeting in Leicester September 2007 and is in the current manifesto

The fact that you did not attend the meeting to speak in favour of your Pro-Independence Position should also be noted by all English Nationalists.

You left the English Democrats party once the democratic vote went against you.

as did your New Party leader Andrew Constantine, when he was not selected as the London Mayoral Candidate again by a democratic vote.

Personally I think that democracy is the best way forward, but maybe you wish to run your New Party along different lines ?

Richard the Lionheart · 22-02-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentishman

If the English Democrats was a Pro-Independence Party, then you would not have left, and set up a New party, that you are so keen to tell us all about.

A Federal UK with Fiscal Automony for England with an English Parliament is the Official Position of the English Democrats as confirmed Democratically by the membership at the Last General Meeting in Leicester September 2007 and is in the current manifesto

The fact that you did not attend the meeting to speak in favour of your Pro-Independence Position should also be noted by all English Nationalists.

You left the English Democrats party once the democratic vote went against you.

as did your New Party leader Andrew Constantine, when he was not selected as the London Mayoral Candidate again by a democratic vote.

Personally I think that democracy is the best way forward, but maybe you wish to run your New Party along different lines ?

Interesting post. Now I shall tell people the truth. I tendered my resignation FOUR MONTHS after that AGM, for which I gave notice many months in advance that I would not be able to attend. My resignation email to the EDP chairman was dated 19th Jan of this year. My enthusiasm for the EDP died the day that you offered to meet with the far right England First party, which I opposed. I offered my resignation at that point but was persuaded to stay on. You caused a huge rift in the party at that time, which has never fully healed.

You say the EDP are a democratic party. Well, I put this to you. The roots of the EDP come from the English National Party, a party that had independence as a policy. Would you mind telling us all by what mechanism the party changed its name, and was it put to a vote of the members?

Kentishman · 23-02-2008, 12:01 AM

I've met with many political parties as is my remit over the past 4 years, part of our strategy is to increase the size of our party by merger, and to form constuctive alliances, the NC is of course Democratically elected to run the English Democrats party and the NC determines strategy.

Since 2003 informal or formal meetings have occurred with at least 14 registered political parties that would have at least one policy in common with the English Democrats:-

Namely

Liberal Party
UK Reform Party - (Merged with the English Democrats)
UKIP
Senior Citizens Party
Countryside Party
Greenhithe & Scanscombe Residents Assocaition
Veritas
Scottish National Party (SNP)
England First Party
English Progressive Party - (Merged with the English Democrats)
England's Parliament Party
English Independence Party
English Parliamentary party - (Merged with the English Democrats)
New England Party - (Merged with the English Democrats)

Some meetings have progressed into either merger or relations through the English Constitutional Convention, some meetings have simply confirmed views and parties have agreed to disagree and then parted.

Resigning when you do not understand the full picture, is a sign of immaturity, it would appear that you throw your toys out of your pram, everytime something does not go your own way.

You appeared to have got a good group of people together in Hertfordshire three years ago, yet you threw it away, over a meeting you had pre-judged before it occured, and due to your actions did not occur - how can such actions be constuctive for the English Movement, with hindsight, was it worth destroying what you had helped to create in Hetfordshire.

I believe that if you meet with people, then you can find out exactly where they are coming from, and determine if there are things in common or not, you were personally invited to three successive NC meetings to discuss your enthusiams for an policy of English Independence, yet you have never explained why you did not attend.

Web Sites and Internet Forums do not always present the whole truth about people, it's people in this world that make things happen by talking face to face with other people.

I joined the English Democrats in 2003 following the Merger of about 5 Small English Parties in 2002 to form the English Democrats - the English National Party was one of these small parties I understand.

The new Manifesto for the new party - The English Democrats was in 2002 agreed between all of the parties present (I understand).

The basic message was that of a mission statement to achieve an English Parliament as the prime objective of the new party - The English Democrats, it was not until 2005 that the membership voted to confirm the position of an English Parliament within a Federal UK with fiscal automony for England - until this time it was not clear how the English Parliament would be achieved.

Each policy change for the English Democrats is achieved by the General Membership voting Democratically on each policy ammendment or change at a General meeting, either in person or by proxy.

It sounds like your new party will simply start with YOUR vision of how things are to be done, no doubt if your membership voted against YOUR vision then you would once again, "throw your toys out the pram", or no doubt expell them from your party, as you don't seem to have any respect for democracy, or indeed officers of a party democratically appointed by the membership maybe your new party, should have been called the "do as I say party"

After working so hard to merge English Parties into one force over the past 5 years, it is naturally disappointing that you have taken the actions you have.

The idea that you will once again be getting off your chair by your computer, and putting "English" leaflets through letter boxes has to be welcomed, as this action certainly cannot do any harm to the English Movement.

If you come out with some excuse as to why you will not be standing for election, you will of course be a laughing stock for the whole English Movement, I hope we will not be laughing at you, hopefully we will be congratulating you once again for hopefully a credible result in Hertfordshire.

16.8% is the benchmark set last night by the English Democrats in a first past the post election - I suggest you start leafletting now under your own colours if you intend to surpass this.

At a local level the only way of getting party name recognition is regular and repeated leafletting. Leafletting an average ward of 4,000 votes by yourself is quite time consuming, and you will need to repeat the process 4 or 5 times between now and 1 May 2008 if you wish to get a good result.

If you then have time you need to do some door to door canvassing, this is even more time consuming.

You will also have to take out the time to design 4 or 5 leaflets and of course pay for them to get printed.

It's quite a task you have set yourself !

22-02-2008, 08:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Kentishman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent Posts: 1,872	English Democrats replace UKIP as premier Eurosceptic Party Dartford is a good barometer of the various fortunes of UKIP v's English Democrats. 2003 & 2004 demostrated the rise of UKIP both in Dartford and Nationally, By 2008 UKIP is simply a sad addition to the Ballot paper attracting just 19 Votes less then 1% of the poll. More and more Former UKippers are joining the English Democrats as the only serious hope English Democrats/New England May 2003 Council election: New England Party - 276 Votes (1 Candidate) June 2004 European election: English Democrats - 529 Votes (1 Candidate) May 2005 General election: New England Party - 1,224 Votes (1 Candidate) July 2006 - 1 x By Election; New England Party - 174 Votes (1 Candidate) May 2007 Council elections: English Democrats - 5,545 Votes (20 Candidates) Feb 2008 - 1 x By Election; English Democrats - 198 Votes (1 Candidate) UKIP May 2003 Council election: UKIP - 1,935 Votes (14 Candidates) June 2004 European election: UKIP - 4,628 Votes (1 Candidate) May 2005 General election: UKIP - 1,407 Votes (1 Candidate) July 2006 - 1 x By Election UKIP - 179 Votes (1 Candidate) May 2007 Council elections: UKIP - 664 Votes (4 Candidates) Feb 2008 - 1 x By Election; English Democrats - 19 Votes (1 Candidate) __________________ Click for English Democrats Site Tel: 0907 004 1066 (24hrs) English Democrats - Englands Serious National Party VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST ARE PERSONAL

22-02-2008, 08:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
Kentishman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent Posts: 1,872	London First in May 2008 will be a true test. __________________ Click for English Democrats Site Tel: 0907 004 1066 (24hrs) English Democrats - Englands Serious National Party VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST ARE PERSONAL

22-02-2008, 09:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Kentishman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent Posts: 1,872	English Demcorats have excellent links to the Liberal Party, and indeed the Liberal Party is the premier Eurosceptic Party in some areas of mainly England, apart from Leicester I don't believe our supporter conflict. I understand the Liberal Party is not standing in London this year, but if it is we need to start communications immediately as we have many shared policies including:- No to ID Cards Euro Sceptic Pro-Federal UK Please feel free to PM me __________________ Click for English Democrats Site Tel: 0907 004 1066 (24hrs) English Democrats - Englands Serious National Party VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST ARE PERSONAL

22-02-2008, 09:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Kentishman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent Posts: 1,872	If the English Democrats was a Pro-Independence Party, then you would not have left, and set up a New party, that you are so keen to tell us all about. A Federal UK with Fiscal Automony for England with an English Parliament is the Official Position of the English Democrats as confirmed Democratically by the membership at the Last General Meeting in Leicester September 2007 and is in the current manifesto The fact that you did not attend the meeting to speak in favour of your Pro-Independence Position should also be noted by all English Nationalists. You left the English Democrats party once the democratic vote went against you. as did your New Party leader Andrew Constantine, when he was not selected as the London Mayoral Candidate again by a democratic vote. Personally I think that democracy is the best way forward, but maybe you wish to run your New Party along different lines ? __________________ Click for English Democrats Site Tel: 0907 004 1066 (24hrs) English Democrats - Englands Serious National Party VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST ARE PERSONAL

23-02-2008, 12:01 AM	#10 (permalink)
Kentishman Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Dartford, Kent Posts: 1,872	I've met with many political parties as is my remit over the past 4 years, part of our strategy is to increase the size of our party by merger, and to form constuctive alliances, the NC is of course Democratically elected to run the English Democrats party and the NC determines strategy. Since 2003 informal or formal meetings have occurred with at least 14 registered political parties that would have at least one policy in common with the English Democrats:- Namely Liberal Party UK Reform Party - (Merged with the English Democrats) UKIP Senior Citizens Party Countryside Party Greenhithe & Scanscombe Residents Assocaition Veritas Scottish National Party (SNP) England First Party English Progressive Party - (Merged with the English Democrats) England's Parliament Party English Independence Party English Parliamentary party - (Merged with the English Democrats) New England Party - (Merged with the English Democrats) Some meetings have progressed into either merger or relations through the English Constitutional Convention, some meetings have simply confirmed views and parties have agreed to disagree and then parted. Resigning when you do not understand the full picture, is a sign of immaturity, it would appear that you throw your toys out of your pram, everytime something does not go your own way. You appeared to have got a good group of people together in Hertfordshire three years ago, yet you threw it away, over a meeting you had pre-judged before it occured, and due to your actions did not occur - how can such actions be constuctive for the English Movement, with hindsight, was it worth destroying what you had helped to create in Hetfordshire. I believe that if you meet with people, then you can find out exactly where they are coming from, and determine if there are things in common or not, you were personally invited to three successive NC meetings to discuss your enthusiams for an policy of English Independence, yet you have never explained why you did not attend. Web Sites and Internet Forums do not always present the whole truth about people, it's people in this world that make things happen by talking face to face with other people. I joined the English Democrats in 2003 following the Merger of about 5 Small English Parties in 2002 to form the English Democrats - the English National Party was one of these small parties I understand. The new Manifesto for the new party - The English Democrats was in 2002 agreed between all of the parties present (I understand). The basic message was that of a mission statement to achieve an English Parliament as the prime objective of the new party - The English Democrats, it was not until 2005 that the membership voted to confirm the position of an English Parliament within a Federal UK with fiscal automony for England - until this time it was not clear how the English Parliament would be achieved. Each policy change for the English Democrats is achieved by the General Membership voting Democratically on each policy ammendment or change at a General meeting, either in person or by proxy. It sounds like your new party will simply start with YOUR vision of how things are to be done, no doubt if your membership voted against YOUR vision then you would once again, "throw your toys out the pram", or no doubt expell them from your party, as you don't seem to have any respect for democracy, or indeed officers of a party democratically appointed by the membership maybe your new party, should have been called the "do as I say party" After working so hard to merge English Parties into one force over the past 5 years, it is naturally disappointing that you have taken the actions you have. The idea that you will once again be getting off your chair by your computer, and putting "English" leaflets through letter boxes has to be welcomed, as this action certainly cannot do any harm to the English Movement. If you come out with some excuse as to why you will not be standing for election, you will of course be a laughing stock for the whole English Movement, I hope we will not be laughing at you, hopefully we will be congratulating you once again for hopefully a credible result in Hertfordshire. 16.8% is the benchmark set last night by the English Democrats in a first past the post election - I suggest you start leafletting now under your own colours if you intend to surpass this. At a local level the only way of getting party name recognition is regular and repeated leafletting. Leafletting an average ward of 4,000 votes by yourself is quite time consuming, and you will need to repeat the process 4 or 5 times between now and 1 May 2008 if you wish to get a good result. If you then have time you need to do some door to door canvassing, this is even more time consuming. You will also have to take out the time to design 4 or 5 leaflets and of course pay for them to get printed. It's quite a task you have set yourself ! __________________ Click for English Democrats Site Tel: 0907 004 1066 (24hrs) English Democrats - Englands Serious National Party VIEWS EXPRESSED IN THIS POST ARE PERSONAL

22-02-2008, 08:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,824	"English First, British Second" It that really a political slogan? What does it mean?

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