cassie

You are pushing an open door here!

Methinks it is Lord Forsyth you should be telling!



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Britannist

I am well aware of what the Barnett Formula refers to - I have followed this issue for many years.

What you write about differences in UK public money distribution in different parts of England (what you call 'regions' - an EU term) does not change the fact that each Scottish person in Scotland gets at least £1500 more of UK public money spent on him/her each year than does each English person in England.

Differences in public spending levels within England are not relevant to this particular issue (there are differences in UK public spending levels within Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland/Ulster too) - what we are discussing in this thread is the fact that Scotland gets more out of the UK Treasury than it puts in and this is the case even when North Sea oil revenues (to the UK Treasury) are taken into account (at least 30% of North Sea oil coming from the English part of the North Sea, of course).

There is no excuse for the present situation which amounts to Welsh and English people in Wales and England getting less UK public money spent on them every year just because they live in Wales and England.

It is this sort of unfair treatment which is leading to rising support in England for England quitting the UK (the latest opinion poll on this matter shows that at least 11 million voters in England now want England to withdraw from the UK).

Britannist

For those who do not know it, former UK Conservative Government minister Lord Forsyth - a UK Unionist and Scotsman - has allegedly warned that the Union of the UK could end.

Britannist

Brief edited extract from the Scotland on Sunday newspaper edition of 10.2.2008:

(Quote from Scotland on Sunday 10.2.2008) "He (Lord Forsyth) fears populist measures proposed by the SNP (Scottish National Party) – such as free prescription charges – will lead to resentment in England which will eventually lead to more support for separation. Forsyth was speaking as he backed moves to reform the Barnett Formula. Forsyth said: "We are seeing the real prospect of the disintegration of the UK." (End of quote from Scotland on Sunday 10.2.2008)

Smidgey

What elections were these?

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How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

Britannist

I think what RJT is referring to are last May's Scottish Parliamentary Elections (in which the pro-UK parties won a clear majority) or an opinion poll last Autumn which put support in Scotland for Scotland quitting the UK at its lowest level for some years (about 23% I believe).

I have to say, with some media coverage as it is, some might think Salmond's europhile anti-UK Scottish so-called 'National' Party (SNP) had won a big majority in last May's elections. The fact that the SNP got less votes last May than did the Scottish Conservative Party in Scotland at the June 1987 General Election appears to have been forgotten.

blank_frackis

At no point did I claim that it does, what I'm pointing out is that those living in London and the North-East receive almost as disproportionate an amount of public expenditure as those living in Scotland and that if we are at all interested in the concept of "fairness" that would have some relevance to our discussion. What do you feel about the fact that the average person living in London receives at least £1,300 more of UK public money spent on him/her each year than those living in the rest of England?

I'm going to hazard a guess here, that the only reason these figures aren't relevant to you is because you're an English nationalist (as opposed to a British one) and your intention is to present a picture of inequality along nationalist lines. If you actually look at the range of expenditure across different areas of the UK it's no more a question of Scottish dominance than it is of London dominance, or the dominance of the North-East of England. All of these areas receive disproportionate amounts of public expenditure in comparison to the rest of the UK.

Here are the figures:

Northern Ireland - £9,385 per person
Scotland - £8,623 per person
London - £8,404 per person
North East of England - £8,177 per person
Wales - £8,139 per person
North West - £7,798 per person
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Yorkshire and Humberside - £7,188 per person
West Midlands - £7,065 per person
South West - £6,677 per person
East Midlands - £6,491 per person
South East - £6,304 per person
Eastern England - £6,144 per person

All of the areas above the dotted line receive more than the average public expenditure and all of the areas below it could therefore claim to be discriminated against. Only if you view those figures from the perspective of an English nationalist would you draw your conclusion, if you're a British nationalist - as I am - then you just see a general picture of disparity with respects to public expenditure.

Britannist

But this debate in this thread is not about differences in UK public expenditure per head of population - it is about the Barnett Formula which even Lord Barnett has said wants abolished because it is not fair on England.

You will notice that few English posters to this forum are involving themselves in the internal domestic affairs of your country of Scotland and the the matter of different levels of UK public expenditure within Scotland.

Britannist

Have you heard of the London Deficit? If you haven't - go to the One London Party website to read up on it. London is not getting a fair share of UK public money.

Britannist

I am a supporter of the UK. I am a UK Unionist and want all four parts of the UK to remain together permanently (as you would find if you checked - in the forum archive - my postings on this matter from the time I joined this forum).

You have not posted to the forum for some time (or not very often for some months it seems) and you may not be familiar with my views on this matter (not that you should be, of course - there are many more views expressed here than just mine).

I want financial and constitutional equality for England with Scotland within the UK.

I want England to have the same level of control over her internal affairs as Scotland has had since devolution in 1999.

And I believe that the fact that each Scottish person in Scotland gets more money UK money spent on him/her than does each Welsh and English person in England and Wales is damaging support for the UK in England.

I seek to stop this trend because I back the Union of the UK and because I want the people of England treated fairly.

I do not think the people of Scotland would tolerate getting £1500 less per head of population of UK public money spent on them than each English person in England does.

The people of England have tolerated this for decades and we have had enough.