Discussion thread on the Free England Party's electoral strategy

[Richard the Lionheart]

Actually, we have discussed standing in the Euros, its a possibility.

[Frith]

Originally Posted by Northumbrian

So I guess the FEP won't be contesting the European elections next year? A pity, as the EDP won't be standing in the North East region!

I understand the plan to only contest local elctions for a while. That makes sense. But we shouldn't dismiss the possibility that someone may join who is prepared to donate lots of money.

If the party policies can be presented well and the overall message inspires confidence and a sense of passionate involvement, interested donors may come forth.

[cassie]

Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart

I am quite astonished by that post Cassie. The thread is intended to discuss the best way forward for the FEP working with limited resources, and the best way for us to deal with issues of elections. It is hoped that people with experience would be able to contribute help and advice to the discussion, not throw a spanner in the works! The thread is also aimed at those who are interested in independence for England, which of course, you are not, so not sure why you're posting here.

As a founder member of the FEP, I find it regrettable you see the registration of the party as having intolerance, lack of wisdom, and lack of vision. We are an open party as you can see by the very fact that we have open discussions about our party on various forums. To want to see an independent English nation state surely cannot be a lack of vision, and we have learned several valuable lessons from other parties. That is the purpose of this thread, for us to engage people in discussion about our new party and electoral success.

You mention Andrew's sudden exit from the EDP. Mine came the same day. We both tendered our resignations honourably from the party and left on good terms. You were expelled from the party. We both decided we wanted to pursue a different path to that of the ED's.

Please don't knock us before we have even got started!

Can we go back to the original discussion please?

Others will be able to observe for themselves that you have failed to deal with particular points that I have made, preferring instead to make a generalised response!

You are correct that I was expelled and the point I made here was that he (and you) chose voluntarily to create this situation which further divides English nationalists! You are correct in that I am in MY situation NOT by choice! You omitted to mention that Andrew Constantine was at the forefront of the action to expel me.

As you very well know, I was expelled without an acceptable process having been followed which would have allowed me to hear what was said against me (by Andrew and others) AND permitted me to respond. Having been at the forefront of excluding me from the EDP, Andrew has now abruptly left of his own accord. We are in the public domain, and people are entitled to consider whether Andrew, as a prominent founding member, has transported this kind of conduct to the FEP? Readers are entitled to know the background to this thread, especially as it has a pop at 'other small nationalist parties'!

You should have thought about elections BEFORE you jumped ship! The one set of elections of particular importance to English nationalists is the set involving the capital city of England and yet you have feebly withdrawn from them and weakened the efforts of those who are pursuing the cause of a parliament for England. It is abundantly clear that your 'best way forward' simply creates more delay to add to the division.

I am not 'knocking' you; merely stating facts as I see them. Unfortunately, it is the unpalatable facts which are knocking you.

I shall be surprised if the FEP is functioning at all in eighteen months time. You can rest assured that I'll be checking to see whether it has fully complied with the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 and Electoral Commission regulations in April 2009.


PS:On the subject of small parties, have a look at mkpdavies' thread here "Default No more new or smaller parties in Portugal"

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[Richard the Lionheart]

Cassie, you and I had several long conversations at the time it took place and I was very supportive of your case, but I guess we have all moved on from the EDP and exploring pastures new.

It's a bit unfair to say we have feebly withdrawn from them when we havent even entered them....yet! If we dont enter, then we quite clearly leave the field open for those you believe can battle effectively for a parliament for England. In what way has the FEP weakened the efforts of those who are pursuing the cause of a parliament for England? What evidence do you have to support your claim?

Why have you made the comments about making checks on us with the Electoral Commission? Do you despise us that much that you would rather attack an English nationalist party rather than the real enemies? We support withdrawal from the EU, we oppose mass immigration, we support the creation of an English parliament, albeit with more powers than the one you would like, so why have a go at us? We've only just got started and already you want to see the back of us.

I hope you are proud of yourself.

[Northumbrian]

'You are correct that I was expelled and the point I made here was that he (and you) chose voluntarily to create this situation which further divides English nationalists!'

The English Democrats aren't English nationalists.

A nationalist must want a nation state for his nation.

[Englander 1]

Northumbrian please dont speak for me!

[cassie]

Originally Posted by Northumbrian

'You are correct that I was expelled and the point I made here was that he (and you) chose voluntarily to create this situation which further divides English nationalists!'

The English Democrats aren't English nationalists.

A nationalist must want a nation state for his nation.

That's simply your interpretation of the word, unless you have some kind of widely accepted authority for such a limited definition which you can cite.

My dictionary gives two definitions: 1. strong support for and pride in one's own country, often to an extreme degree. 2. belief in political independence for a particular country.

Therefore, by reason of 1. alone English Democrats members are entitled to regard themselves as nationalists. Moreover, you do not render yourself more of a nationalist by seeking to exclude others who do not fit your narrow stance! On the contrary, you start to appear more extreme. It should also be accepted that some EDP members desire what you call 'independence', but see the EDP as the most effective means of moving closer to achieving that after the power to create a separate parliament for England has been acquired.

Addressing 2. which refers to 'political independence', it can be argued that England already has 'political independence' but does not exercise it, rightly or wrongly. Indeed, unless the composition of the Commons is altered to the extent that a majority agree that England should have a separate parliament, it is difficult to see how 'independence' can be secured via Parliament.

Because over five hundred of Parliament's six hundred odd MPs are from constituencies in England, the aim must be to make more than three hundred of them are elected to actually represent England. When such a position is reached, England's MPs will not only have power over England but also all of the UK. This is possible without any constitutional amendment. Therefore, disengagement from Scotland is more accurately described as 'separation'.

You can dance around these facts to your heart's content, but nothing will change them and you have to deal with them. Nit picking over who or what is a genuine nationalist is sterile to the Nth degree and merely conveys the distinct impression to others who do not see themselves in such a way (and there are many of them!) that nationalists are a fractious,divisive lot to be avoided.

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[Richard the Lionheart]

Originally Posted by Englander 1

Northumbrian please dont speak for me!

.............says the man who thinks creating a federal UK is creating an English nation state.

Here's something for you to reflect on

A - SNP - support independence
B - PC - support independence
C - FEP - support independence
D - EDP - support union
E - CON - support union
F - LAB - support union
G - LD - support union
H - BNP - support union
I - UKIP - support union

Those are the facts, whether you like them or not.

[Andrew Constantine]

Originally Posted by Northumbrian

So I guess the FEP won't be contesting the European elections next year? A pity, as the EDP won't be standing in the North East region!

I understand the plan to only contest local elctions for a while. That makes sense. But we shouldn't dismiss the possibility that someone may join who is prepared to donate lots of money.

Northumbrian

I confirm that there is a gathering view that we should focus on local elections.

I am still probably going to stand for the London Assembly this May 2008 as a constituency candidate under FPTP rules. The deposit is £1,000, which if I do not recover will be painful.

The Euro elections in June 2009 are a little too early for the party's development. And the deposit is a more serious £5,000. But no one has to make a decision whether to stand or not for some time.

Whatever the circumstances of the future, all members should try their best to build up the local party. We should help each other out - leafletting on your own is thankless and soul destroying, but with some colleagues can be much more fun.

Now do you live in a nice part of Nothumberland....

Kind Regards, Andrew

[Englander 1]

Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart

.............says the man who thinks creating a federal UK is creating an English nation state.

Here's something for you to reflect on

A - SNP - support independence
B - PC - support independence
C - FEP - support independence
D - EDP - support union
E - CON - support union
F - LAB - support union
G - LD - support union
H - BNP - support union
I - UKIP - support union

Those are the facts, whether you like them or not.

Looks like my colleague was right about you Richard!