Millennium3

Although I am sympathetic to the idea of an English Parliament, aren't you English Nationalists living in a dream world? You don't seem to have noticed that the Lisbon Treaty will be ratified by the end of the year and from the beginning of 2009 we will be then living in a new state called Europe.

Whereas I would accept that if there were a majority in the HofC wishing to have the referendum you want after the next GE, Westminster may have enough sovereignty left at that time to succeed in producing the change you desire. However, I don't believe you really hold out any hope of having such a majority after the next GE which is at most only 2 years away.

By the time the following GE comes around the measures contained in the LT are likely to be fully implemented and the HofC will not have the power to pass the necessary legislation - we will be a province of Europe and Britain will look like this:

European Parliament UK Office - UK MEPs

It's the reason that the government will not entertain the idea of an English Parliament - it does not fit in with the overall plan, whereas parliaments/assemblies for Scotland and Wales do!

cassie

We seem to be going around in circles.

The UK comprises Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Therefore, if just "one of the signatories of the act of union" 1707(?) withdraws, that still leaves either: (A) England, Wales & Northern Ireland or (B) Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. So much for 'terminating the UK'!

You have not explained how your new party will attempt to bring about the holding of a referendum . . . unless it is going to be left to chance? Presently, the power to conduct referenda resides in Westminster. So a majority there in favour must be created.

Even so, a referendum is only a means of determining collective opinion, and the power to act subsequently still remains with Parliament, not with the result of a referendum.

The fact is that you have to either convert the opinions of existing individual MPs or replace them or both in order to have a referendum. All the present objective indications are that more voters favour a separate Parliament for England within the UK than those wanting total separation. Moreover, the indications are that some of those who would otherwise support an English Parliament will actually oppose those who promote total separation. So the prospects for replacing MPs seem even bleaker than those of the EDP.

On present evidence (which includes the experience of the EDP's efforts), a new independence party will fare even less well and fizzle out within a short time. Your only hope ~ short of a big benefactor or two ~ is to recruit many members to bring in income and resources. No doubt you will want to publicise such matters, if you are successful. However, the publication of no information about the numbers of members you attract and continued silence from you about such matters, will be construed (probably correctly) that you have failed or are failing.


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rjt

Why do you think there will be a referendum in the next 2-3yrs?

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Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO!
(Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990)

Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

Richard the Lionheart

The SNP have promised a referendum in 2010. That is the key issue at present. We intend to campaign for equal rights to a referendum if Scotland get one. It's fair isn't it? I know what you're going to say, since when have this government been fair? But the point is that everyone in the UK should get a chance to decide if they want to remain as part of a UK, or go our own ways.

rjt

The SNP have no mandate for this, it will be voted down.

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Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO!
(Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990)

Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

Millennium3

Perhaps more importantly at this stage - everyone in the UK should get the chance to decide if they want to become Europeans. It is the Lisbon Treaty that will prevent any English Parliament or Independent England more than anything else.

cassie

If I interpret your posting correctly, you are still buying into the deception whereby 3.9 million voters in Scotland can be given a referendum, but the 38 million voters in England must stand aside and passively observe. THAT is not fair nor democratic!

Voters in England (and Wales) should be able to participate in these opinion gathering exercises, quite simply because we will be affected if Scotland leaves the UK. Moreover, both sides of the 'independence' debate in England could unite to press for us to participate in such referenda.

Of course I'd be willing to 'bought off' and agree that voters in Scotland might have a separate referendum on the question of their independence if we can have one simultaneously on the question of our independence!

Consistent with this, I agree with Millennium3's point about a EU referendum.

rjt

Yes I quite agree.

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Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO!
(Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990)

Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

Britannist

Cassie, you have forget to mention Northern Ireland (above quote) - Northern Ireland being a proud part of the UK - a part of the UK which has been British for longer than the USA has existed.

As I have written before, the key priority at this time is get the anti-English and pro-euro Labour regime out of power at Westminster.

As long as Brown's Lie-bour Party are in control of the UK, there will be no change to the unfair devolution status quo at all.

cassie

In truth, I did not forget N Ireland and fully accept your point! It is just that sometimes listing all and sundry ~ especially if one included the Scilly & Channel Isles, Isle of Man etc ~ can make postings even more laborious than they already are.

I would emphasise that in demanding participation for voters in England, I include all other parts of the UK as a matter of principle. I do not need to adopt a lower standard simply because others in power do!

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