Northumbrian

There are currently 529 English MPs in Westminster out of a total of 646.

With most of the work of the British Parliament taken up with English matters, not surprisingly, we could easily reduce the British Parliament by 75%. Let's make it a total of 156 MPs, which is twice that of the British allocation of European MPs. With a normal British MP salary of £60,000, that's a saving of 646-156=490 * 60,000 = £29.4 million.

Normal salary of an MP in the Scottish Parliament is £45,000. If the English Parliament consists of 529 MPs (same allocation to that of English MPs in Westminster) and they are paid the same rate - that's an increase in expense of 529*45,000 = £23.8 million.

So already we've saved money amounting to £5.6 million. We could even go further by reducing the salaries of the British MPs, as they would have far fewer functions, though of course they would represent larger constituencies.

This probably explains why there is strong opposition to an EP amongst the Westminster MPs. The possiblity of most of them having their salaries reduced to that of a Holyrood MSP must fill them with horror!

Of course, I'm making the assumption that MPs put their salaries and expenses first, and may be wrong about that....

cassie

Is there any objective evidence to support this assertion/assumption?

Northumbrian

Well put it this way, the official arguments are so flimsy and can be so easily defeated that you wonder if there is another underlying reason.

So what do we know about what an English Parliament would entail? We know that the MPs in the British Parliament must be reduced, because this has already happened to Scottish MPs following devolution. We also know MSPs are paid less than British MPs, so there's no way English Parliament MPs can earn more than them.

So are you prepared the accept the following as facts?
A British Parliament would be smaller than the current one should an English Parliament be created.
English Parliament MPs would earn less than present British MPs.

Therefore, a large number of incumbent MPs would either lose their job or be assigned a new job with a lower salary.

Now I don't believe MPs are any more virtuous than most of us, so I doubt many would fancy taking on a lower salary just to keep the English public happy. Do you not think that during the last few years in the Commons Bar that they haven't discussed the implications of an EP upon their careers?

So no, it's not a fact because we aren't privy to their private conversations, and no MP would dare to admit it; but I would suggest it's a strong theory.





Well, it's what you call a theory as opposed to a fact, because the official arguments they spin out are so flimsy anf lightweight that you have to start wondering

SponPlague

Actually, 75% of it is taken up by Brussels matters - at least in terms of legislation...

Northumbrian

Okay - most of the work of the British Parliament is taken up with English matters under Brussels legislation.

cassie

In my opinion, you've made a number of assumptions, none of which could credibly be held to be "the real reason for no English Parliament".

As far as I am concerned, minorities (primarliy the Scots) have gained control of our (the British) Parliamentary system having first gained control of the three main Brit parties, and are determined to negate the numerical advantage of the people of England, despite the fact that they (the English) have not oppressed the minorities certainly since 1945 ~ even earlier, it could be argued. [I do hope that no one is going dredge up the dreary subject of the Poll Tax which, yes was first introduced in Scotland, was also introduced in England and Wales.]

Your assumptions about the numbers of MPs take no account of (for example) the huge number of MSPs etc. Holyrood has 129 MSPs to represent five million citizens. An English Parliament constituted on the same scale would have over 1,290 Members! Compare these figures with the 649 MPs plus 200 odd peers to do the business of 60 million UK citizens!

Having said this, even the cost of all those politicians (and of constructing new parliamentary chambers) pales into insignificance when taken as a proportion of the Government's total annual budget. Politicians just love dopey voters to get obsessed with these matters (along with interminable arguments about professional football, cricket and rugby) because it tends to divert them from the really big issues: how billions of pounds of public money are actually expended!

Now, about the EU . . . .

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Britannist

UKIP policy is to get rid of the present EU-backed Scottish Parliament and let the Scottish constituency MPs do the job of the 129 members of the Scottish Parliament instead. While the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish constituency MPs were away from the Commons deliberating on internal Scottish matters, the House of Commons would deal with and vote on exclusively English issues.

Northumbrian

How about reducing further the number of Scottish MPs at Westminster? They do get paid more, and claim more expenses because they have further to travel.

Then when we've done that - reduce the number of MSPs because 129 is far too many.

Northumbrian

'UKIP policy is to get rid of the present EU-backed Scottish Parliament and let the Scottish constituency MPs do the job of the 129 members of the Scottish Parliament instead.'

And how do you intend to do that? The Scottish Parliament was voted into being by the Scottish public. Are you going to take that away from them without asking them?

You'll play straight into the hands of the nationalists, who would surely become the majority party of the Scottish Westminster MPs, which must precipitate a referendum on Scottish independence, which surely must be won.

Hey - perhaps your party is an English nationalist party after all!

Westcountryman

Cassie, the House of Lords has 738 members, not '200 odd'.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."