Britannist

The creation of the Scottish Parliament was approved of (in a referendum) by a minority of the Scottish electorate (the majority voted against it or did not vote at all).

Another referendum could be held in Scotland in which the option of getting rid of the costly Scottish Parliament and its replacement with dual-purpose MPs (i.e. MPs who sit in Westminster and do the work of the present Scottish Parliament) is put to the people of Scotland.

No changes would be made to the way Scotland is governed without the permission of the Scottish people.

If the people of Scotland vote in a referendum to keep the existing Scottish Parliament with no changes to it then an equivalent English Parliament would have to be established with the same powers as the present Scottish Parliament.

England must have equality with Scotland within the UK.

cassie

Thank you for that.

I would welcome a link if you have one.

Despite your welcome correction, I think my point still stands, although weakened somewhat ie some 1,387 Westminster Parliamentarians for over 60 million people in the UK compared with 129 MSPs for 5 million in Scotland [12x129=1,548]

cassie

I dispute that the "Scottish Parliament was voted into being by the Scottish public."! The British Parliament enacted the relevant legislation, thereby bringing it into being. Some 44.8% of Scottish voters (ie 74.3% of a 60.4% turnout) recorded support for a Scottish parliament. This is to say that voters in Scotland (8% of the UK's electorate) were afforded opportunity to express a collective opinion in this matter.

I'm afraid that you retain the mindset conducive to the minority position by accepting that only voters in Scotland (and Wales) should be accorded special treatment enabling THEM, but not the 84% of British voters in England, to inform the UK Government about devolution matters affecting the whole of the UK!

If you were a true democrat, you would be pressing for ALL voters in the UK to participate in ANY referenda affecting ALL or ANY part of the UK, instead of dividing English nationalists by calling solely for a referendum in England on the question of English 'independence'! In other words, we should be demanding that any referenda about Scottish independence should provide for voters in England and all other parts of the UK to participate!

The fact that the current Scottish dominated government excluded voters in England from participating in the referenda held in 1997 is entirely consistent with the fact that Scotland and the Scottish people have never fully participated in the Union in the way that the same government now demands of England and the English!

Scotland and the representatives it has sent down to Westminster are discredited by the double standard of having its own legal system, bank notes, Education system and, more recently, its own parliament, Health and Transport systems. Unlike England, it also has a separate voice in the EU!

Frankly, I do not regard UKIP's current policy here as feasible. No matter how 'good' it is claimed to be, it does not seem likely to attract widespread support which, ultimately, a truly wise policy would do.

There must be a separate English Parliament & Executive if England is to retain its identity. Even so, there is ample scope for re-organisation of the Scottish and Welsh legislatures and of course that of Westminster, to effect economies and to increase efficiency.

With so many MPs able to profitably indulge in extra mural activities such as writing books on fiction, TV and radio appearances, directorships, legal and medical practices, there must be considerable scope for 'rationalisation' and still enable competent MPs do the job they were elected to do!
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Westcountryman

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

cassie

Brilliant! Thank you, albeit a little ruefully!

Northumbrian

Mr Cassie - I was merely responding to the possiblity of Scotland being stripped of their parliament without being asked. Naturally I want a referendum for an English Parliament!

UKIP are falling into the familar trap of assuming that because a certain percentage of people don't vote in a referendum - they must disagree with what's being offered - whereas in reality they have no opinion either way.

cassie

Mr Northumbrian I was merely correcting your assertion that powers were devolved to Scotland by the 1997 Referendum from which voters in England were excluded from expressing collective opinions ~ for recording collective opinions was all they could achieve. It is Parliament which had the power to devolve or to delegate powers and, in theory at least, to take them back!

As regards the 'assumption' trap you say UKIP have fallen into, you seem to have done so also with your astonishing assertion that voters who abstain 'have no opinion either way'!

It is high time that English nationalists ceased swallowing the nonsense that only voters in Scotland or Wales (as the case might be) should have a vote on what happens in their countries! England has been (is) affected by the changes made in consequence, and voters in England should have had an opportunity to record a say.

We should be drawing attention to the hypocrisy of a so called 'united kingdom' in which the 84% of voters in England are denied equal opportunities to express collective opinions about the future of the UK! We have allowed ourselves to be sidelined, to be rendered passive spectators, whilst minority views and interests prevail!

We must insist that English voters be afforded equal opportunity to participate in ANY referenda which affect the UK and England. Yes, and that includes any referendum about independence for Scotland!

Are we to be expected to continue to stand by while 3.8 million voters in Scotland have a say on the question of whether THEY deign to remain part of the UK or to depart? How insulting, how demeaning for the English!

No, no, no! We must be permitted equal opportunity to express a collective opinion. Let the Scots run the risk of a referendum in which they draw back from leaving the Union and in which the English might vote overwhelmingly for the Scots to leave 'if that is what they wish'! Let the English be given the chance to express opinions on such matters!

A campaign along these lines is more likely to unite the English, than any other! It would in essence be a campaign for truer democracy for the 39 million voters in England!


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Sweetie Pie

No way would they accept this rubbish they would go on strike.

Northumbrian

Okay. After devolution, the number of Scottish MPs at Westminster was reduced from 72 to 59. What do you think happened to those 13?

But you're right - they wouldn't accept this rubbish, which was the point I was trying to make for why they don't want an English Parliament.

david H

There is a meeting coming up to discuss this.
CEP Conference
Future of England
26th April 2008
Conway Hall, Red Lion Square, London, WC1R

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"You think you are combatting prejudice but you are at war with nature". Edmund Burke.

http://www.buchanan.org/pa-98-1127.html