Fred the Talking Head

Besoeker · 26-12-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Seems that "yet another asshole detractor with nothing to offer but the self glorification of a bankrupt critic" is a pretty accurate assessment!

Are you just naturally argumentative?

cassie · 26-12-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Are you just naturally argumentative?

A question typical of someone on the back foot! Avoid the issue and, instead, question or attack opponents themselves by way of diversion.

Are you just naturally evasive?

Besoeker · 26-12-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

A question typical of someone on the back foot! Avoid the issue and, instead, question or attack opponents themselves by way of diversion.

Yet you resorted to personal insults?
Chinese proverb:
"He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument. "

I have said here before that I do not support any move to break up the UK. Given that I would prefer it to remain united, it is then reasonable to wish to look at it from that point of view rather than a confrontational Scottish v English divide.

You commented that I am insisting upon trying to divert this thread into comparisons between various parts of England yet ignored or missed that I had also included NI in the regional comparisons. My comparisons referred to different regions of the UK. Your comment was thus inaccurate, intentionally or otherwise.

Yes, there are things that show inequity between the regions but I believe each needs to be dealt with on its own merits rather than as polarised Scotland/England issues. Tuition fees in Scotland are one such example. I think it wrong that students from EU but not elsewhere in UK should benefit. That's wrong. In fact, I think the whole system could do with an overhaul but that's a different topic.

On the other hand, I have no problem with a Scot standing for election to an English constituency nor vice versa. Or Welsh of Irish for that matter. Their party is going to select the candidate they believe has the best chance of winning.

One final point, were it my choice, I'd have the Scottish Parliament out in a heartbeat.

Enough.

cassie · 27-12-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Yet you resorted to personal insults?
Chinese proverb:
"He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument." [I merely quoted Sweetie Pie's words, some of which I would not use myself.]

I have said here before that I do not support any move to break up the UK. [Fair enough, but that depends upon what is seen to be 'a move to break up the UK'.

Increasing numbers of English people are concluding that the other parts of the UK are desperate to keep England within it because they receive disproportionately greater benefit ~ largely from England. Moreover, the opinion is gaining ground that, not only is England being denied self determination to the extent enjoyed in the minor nations, but also that efforts are made to prevent England as a nation from expressing a collective view about seceding . . . or any other subject for that matter!] Given that I would prefer it to remain united, it is then reasonable to wish to look at it from that point of view rather than a confrontational Scottish v English divide. [This seems to be an admission that Fred's 'facts' are largely true and not easily rebutted, if at all. You are merely seeking to excuse your avoidance of addressing unfairnesses.]

You commented that I am insisting upon trying to divert this thread into comparisons between various parts of England yet ignored or missed that I had also included NI in the regional comparisons. My comparisons referred to different regions of the UK. Your comment was thus inaccurate, intentionally or otherwise. [Once again you have avoided the issue of treating England as a entity, as a nation in its own right ~ probably because you are unable to rebut Fred's points.

Not only that, you are trying to have your cake and eat it and, in the process, have been caught on your own hook! If it is ~ as you assert ~ confrontational to make comparisons between England and Scotland, it may also be argued as being confrontational to make comparisons between various parts of England. Divide England to preserve the Union eh?

Yes, I am well aware of the huge bribery which has gone on in NI to pay THEM to resuscitate THEIR separate assembly, [ Press: 2006-82 ] but that does not justify the disproportionately favourable treatment being handed out to Scotland and Wales also. As I said, three wrongs (as opposed to two) do NOT make a right even if it does involve a small number of other people (1.7 million compared with England's 50.6 million)! ]

Yes, there are things that show inequity between the regions but I believe each needs to be dealt with on its own merits rather than as polarised Scotland/England issues. [Then you need a different thread! Why do Scots seem almost invariably seek to divert threads which they find uncomfortably true?]Tuition fees in Scotland are one such example. I think it wrong that students from EU but not elsewhere in UK should benefit. That's wrong. [As I said, you seem unable to rebut Fred's line and, worse, unable to concede it.]
In fact, I think the whole system could do with an overhaul but that's a different topic. [Quite!]

On the other hand, I have no problem with a Scot standing for election to an English constituency nor vice versa. Or Welsh of Irish for that matter.[At one time, I did not, but I do now!]
Their party is going to select the candidate they believe has the best chance of winning. [In Scotland, there being no English MPs, this means only Scots have any chance of being elected, whilst in dear old, tolerant England we have over thirty Scots sitting in our Parliamentary seats. Yes, because of this expedient and shallow thought process, ten out of the twelve candidates who stood in the Southall By-election earlier this year were asian! Only the Greens and the BNP fielded white candidates. It could be argued that was a wholesale admission that the predominantly asian community there are racist. Funny! They would have us believe that it is only whites which are racist!]

One final point, were it my choice, I'd have the Scottish Parliament out in a heartbeat.[Your compatriots would not tolerate it.]

Enough.

I am driven to observe that quite a number of Scots opine support for the UK but, like the French apropos NATO, they demand special terms. No whole hearted, equal partnership for them!

The UK has a greater likelihood of disintegrating whilst Scotland has its own legal system and bank notes! Maybe those 'Unionist' Scots would help their cause if they supported the promotion of a single legal system for the UK and a common set of bank notes, postage stamps etc?

Holyrood will serve to create more differences which the people of England are currently powerless to diminish, let alone eradicate.

Besoeker · 27-12-2007, 06:40 AM

"He who strikes the first blow admits he's lost the argument."

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

I merely quoted Sweetie Pie's words, some of which I would not use myself.

It matters not. That you did quote them shows that you endorsed them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Increasing numbers of English people are concluding that the other parts of the UK are desperate to keep England within it because they receive disproportionately greater benefit

OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

This seems to be an admission that Fred's 'facts' are largely true and not easily rebutted, if at all.

It can’t be an admission if I never sought to rebut them. Indeed, I clearly accepted that they were facts in post #5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Once again you have avoided the issue of treating England as a entity, as a nation in its own right ~ probably because you are unable to rebut Fred's points.

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

As I said, you seem unable to rebut Fred's line and, worse, unable to concede it.

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Scotland, there being no English MPs, this means only Scots have any chance of being elected, whilst in dear old, tolerant England we have over thirty Scots sitting in our Parliamentary seats

There is actually nothing to stop an English person standing for election in a constituency in Scotland. Those Scots who have an English seat can only be there if they are actually voted in by the local electorate. That hardly suggests that they are “tolerated”.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

I am driven to observe that quite a number of Scots opine support for the UK but, like the French apropos NATO, they demand special terms.

There may be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

The UK has a greater likelihood of disintegrating whilst Scotland has its own legal system and bank notes!

Correct me if I wrong, but didn’t these differences exist when the Union came into being? Have they not stood the test of time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

Holyrood will serve to create more differences which the people of England are currently powerless to diminish, let alone eradicate.

I’d have it out in a heartbeat.

Englishman · 29-12-2007, 09:44 PM

I understand the message your trying to get across as Ive done politcs before, Its good to try all sorts of ways to get the message across, even novelty ways, you have to try everything,
but still I got tired of this half way through,
is all you did was inform me of how we English are being screwed politically,
you will never get this message across to the average man on the street whilst talking politics deeply on-line with a novelty head.

Loose as much politics as you can, give it to the public straight, short and sweet, and you may get some where.

Loose politics totaly, inspire and motivate the people of England about how they should not accept any more **** from this corupt government in a basic way, talking on their level and you should make more proggress than you are doing at the minute.

This is not a dig, its me telling it how it is, based on expereance.

Fred · 02-01-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Englishman

I understand the message your trying to get across as Ive done politcs before, Its good to try all sorts of ways to get the message across, even novelty ways, you have to try everything,
but still I got tired of this half way through,
is all you did was inform me of how we English are being screwed politically,
you will never get this message across to the average man on the street whilst talking politics deeply on-line with a novelty head.

Loose as much politics as you can, give it to the public straight, short and sweet, and you may get some where.

Loose politics totaly, inspire and motivate the people of England about how they should not accept any more **** from this corupt government in a basic way, talking on their level and you should make more proggress than you are doing at the minute.

This is not a dig, its me telling it how it is, based on expereance.

Many thanks for that.
I think you are right and have taken on board what you have offered.
It was fun doing and I am in a learning process. So onward!!

It was completed before I realised that there were time and size restraints. It was originally one film of 14mins duration so I had to split it and revamp. That did not help. Fourteen minutes is far too long.
The fact that about 30 people viewed part 1 and 23 people viewed part 2 does indicate that it was not holding interest. I have taken it off Google.
I tried to give it the signature of the talking head theme and I cannot convince myself that this idea is completely bankrupt. I am sure that the media is the correct way forward but it needs a significant hook to hang it on. The background pictures probably distracted rather than enhanced.
I think that 3-4 mins duration is probably enough.

I would like to confine the content to political comment with a view to enhancing public awareness of what is going on. In that light I shall try again and would welcome comment and advice.

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29-12-2007, 09:44 PM	#26 (permalink)
Englishman Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 221	I understand the message your trying to get across as Ive done politcs before, Its good to try all sorts of ways to get the message across, even novelty ways, you have to try everything, but still I got tired of this half way through, is all you did was inform me of how we English are being screwed politically, you will never get this message across to the average man on the street whilst talking politics deeply on-line with a novelty head. Loose as much politics as you can, give it to the public straight, short and sweet, and you may get some where. Loose politics totaly, inspire and motivate the people of England about how they should not accept any more **** from this corupt government in a basic way, talking on their level and you should make more proggress than you are doing at the minute. This is not a dig, its me telling it how it is, based on expereance.