Englishman

Yes it was very wrong for Wales to snatch Monmouthshire how they sneakily did many years ago.

I was part of the 'Let Monmouth decide' campaign for the EDP at the elections in Wales, and was sceptical about it all,
but thought I would let those who feel they know politics lead the way, as I felt politically inexpereanced at that time..

It turns out I should have just stuck to my own guns and used my own brains as this campaign died on its backside, the people were not interested in the EDP and their campaign, it was a battle fought too late, and not a top priorety battle.

I felt then and still feel now that this is a debate for a lot later on,
as for now there are more important things to be campaigning about,
like what matters to people most in England i.e. immigration, the lethal multi cultural experiment, ethnic and cultural cleansing of the English, tax, EU, Policing, PC and the nanny state, education, English Parliament, English independence, Health services, policing etc etc etc

Sadly I felt like I was distracted from my passion of standing for what the English want and what is on their minds most.

I'm glad to be fighting the fight non politically these days.

English priorities now! - Monmouthshire a lot later!!,
this is what the public are telling you,
yet you didn't listen when you got very poor votes in the Monmouthshire elections.

Your wasting your time with this one untill the English gain control of England once again and our priorety needs are met,
and then we can consider Monmouthshire.

cassie

Prior to 1974, Monmouthshire was an English county by reason of the Local Government Act 1933 . . . if nothing else!

Surely the democratic thing would have been to have consulted by referendum in 1972 those directly affected? However, they were then (if nothing more) nominally English and so, just as England and the English were in 1979 and 1997, they were excluded from any collective consultations! In retrospect, what other would one expect from the obsessively pro-EEC Heath Government which refused to hold a referendum about entry to the 'Common Market'!

I remember the then Foreign Secretary - one Sir Alec Douglas Home (it had to be a Scot, didn't it!) - saying: "They shall NOT have a referendum! WE shall decide!" You know, the same kind of non-consultative, dictatorial nonsense Michael Hestletine still comes out with from time to time! He's another EU-phile obsessive - so no surprises there then!

In my less than humble opinion, having a so called 'representative (Ha-bloody-ha!) parliamentary democracy, does not preclude parliamentarians from ascertaining the collective opinions of voters . . . unless, of course, they absolutely refuse to listen to voters and to take their views into account, but impose other opinions instead! All of which brings us up to date with the current Government's refusal to 'consult the people' despite being committed to do so!


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Ea of Dune

I agree the people of Monmouthshire should have been given the choice and not had it forced upon them. However what's done is done. I think English nationalists would be better working togetehr and getting our country out of the EU. If Monmouthshire decides later it wants to come back and join England, then we should welcome them back.
I think picking battles like this at the moment though is not going to get us anywhere.
The history lesson at the begining was a bit weak in my opinion to be honest. The whole migration period and subsequent integration/eradication/migration of the "Celtic" peoples of these isles is a depated subject these days. Archaelogical evidence along with re-examining various sources is shining new light onto the period. Not that ultimatly it matters at the moment, but I think us English do sometimes shoot ourselves in the foot and give our enemies a stick to beat us with.
Anyway I think there has been a lot of good posts made here, and our country is in the same situation Monmouthshire was in back in the 70's. This time it's Broon handing us over to the EUSSR.

Britannist

A very good point Cassie. I remember at the time of the referendum in Wales on having an Assembly, just how close the result was.

Had Labour not backed the Assembly it would never have been approved by the voters of Wales (those voters who took part in the ballot, that is).

I recall two things about the final days of the campaign for/against setting up an Assembly in Wales:

1. Blair (Prime Minister at the time) broke with convention to go in person to Wales to campaign for a 'Yes' to the Assembly vote in the final stages of the referendum campaign (on setting up/not setting up an Assembly). Normally Prime Ministers do not campaign in person in referendum or By-Election campaigns. He had been called in by supporters of setting up Assembly because their campaign was 'in trouble' and they thought that they were going to lose narrowly. As we know, the Assembly was approved by just a few thousand votes.

2. The City of Cardiff - home of the Welsh Assembly - voted No to having an Assembly, but nearby Swansea voted for it.

Labour could have stopped the costly, expensive and divisive Welsh Assembly being set up - but, disgracefully, Labour backed the 'Yes' to the Assembly campaign. Some Labour supporters in Wales refused to back the 'Yes' to the Assembly campaign, I am pleased to mention.

Britannist

The europhile Welsh so-called 'National' Party (Plaid Cymru) would never allow that to happen. They would do their best to stop any referendum ever being held in Monmouthshire on whether the County of Monmouth should return to the English fold.

Just as the republicans, now they have control of what is now the Irish Republic, would never allow a vote to be held there on whether the country should return to the UK.

David Agnew

The Romans were not "driven out", they withdrew to protect Rome.

SilverFalcon

The new info on the Celts and the Anglo-Saxon period could be very useful in reassessing the period and the people.

arden forester

I still maintain that the status of Monmouthshire was not defined until the Act of 1972. Monmouthshire came about following the Laws in Wales Act 1535 because Henry VIII was a Tudor (Welsh) King, and the borders needed some attention! Wales and Monmouthshire was an oft used expression.

This BBC article might be of interest. BBC - h2g2 - Monmouthshire: A County, but English or Welsh?


Laws in Wales Act 1535

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cassie

The local government structure in England & Wales underwent a radical reorganisation circa 1894 as set out in a new statute. A major feature was the distinction made between parochial church councils (ecclesiastical) and parish councils (political). I would not dispute that it did not clarify Monmouthshire's status. Here is a link: Brief History

However, the Local Government Act 1933 clearly sets out which local authorities are in England and which are in Wales. Abergavenny, Monmouth and Newport (for example) together with Monmouthshire are listed as being in England. You may care to see here: Local Government Act 1933 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, for forty years (the 1972 Act did not come into effect until 1974), Monmouthshire was indisputably in England.

For you to assert that the status of Monmouthshire was not defined until the 1972 Act is inaccurate and flies in the face of the facts.

In lieu, all you can offer is an article by an unknown (Welsh?) author, who is not even sufficiently erudite to cite his authorities! (You will find authorities cited in the Wikipedia article) With respect, the 16th Century Laws of Wales are hardly relevant to your assertion; I prefer to remain in the modern era.

However, as someone with Welsh connections (Montgomeryshire, now Powys), I find it tiresome that so many nationalists have to go back centuries in their efforts to make largely invalid points. We have Scots harking back to Culloden, Bannock Burn and all that. Many Welsh seek refuge in the Tudor Acts of 1535 & 1536.

Even so, the facts as I understand them are:

(1) Much of the border between England and Welsh principalities was delineated in the 8th Century by the English King Offa's Dyke, much of what was Monmouthshire being in England. See: Offa's Dyke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(2) There was no nation or entity of Wales until control of the last bastion Gwynedd was taken by Edward I 'Longshanks' circa 1282 which combined all the area of Wales, albeit under English control. See: Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Kingdom of Gwynedd - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(3) With the defeat of Richard III, the English throne was occupied by Welshmen: Henry VII & VIII.

(4) The Laws of Wales were enacted by Henry VIII who effected the legal union of England & Wales.

Britannist

A very interesting and informative posting from you, Arden.