EDP still need big changes to win over voters

cassie · 20-10-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

What position does Con stantine hold

I cannot say with certainty because I was excluded from the AGM and they are very secretive and selective about what is revealed. He was National Treasurer, but I see the website now shows Dave Knight in that position.

If this is the true situation, it seems that I've frightened Mr Constantine with my relevant questioning of HIS performance (or lack of it) as Treasurer!!!

Certainly, K*ntishman has been very coy about this matter and not given a hint about it in his maverick postings here!

Ah! Such is the [SNIPPED] practised by the EDP.

Britannist · 20-10-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Englishman

...the BNP are again beating the Conservatives and coming a close second to Labour in local Council by elections...
Derbyshire, Church Gresley: Lab - 639, BNP - 516, Cons - 304

As a true English nationalist who wants England saving from this multi-cultural hell hole, surely its time to suport the only party who have any chance of saving England in the near future? The BNP.

There is a thread on this week's local ward By-Election in the District of South Derbyshire (referred to above) at:

South Derbyshire local By-Election 18.10.2007

Andrew Constantine · 20-10-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cassie

I cannot say with certainty because I was excluded from the AGM and they are very secretive and selective about what is revealed. He was National Treasurer, but I see the website now shows Dave Knight in that position.

If this is the true situation, it seems that I've frightened Mr Constantine with my relevant questioning of HIS performance (or lack of it) as Treasurer!!!

Certainly, K*ntishman has been very coy about this matter and not given a hint about it in his maverick postings here!

Ah! Such is the deceit and dishonesty practised by the EDP.

Statement by Andrew Constantine

I have not sought to counter before any of the false and malicious comments made on this public forum and eleswhere about me by Alan England.

I have come to the conclusion, however, that as a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of England and Wales who is in professional employment that I cannot allow the various baseless and most serious allegations made by Alan England about me to lie unchallenged.

Along with other officers of my party, we have sought specialist legal advice from a leading firm of lawyers. A number of posts on this forum are under consideration by them.

In my professional life as a chartered accountant, my reputation for absolute honesty is of course the essential requisite for my employment.

I thought before that Alan England's untrue and unpleasant comments about me were best left unanswered, and should be ignored and treated with contempt.

However, Alan England now seems to have decided to mount a long running campaign against both my good reputation and that of fellow officers on the National Council of the English Democrats Party.

I do not wish for my keeping silent before in the face of these allegations to look as though there was a shred of truth in them.

So as to minimise any further damage to my reputation, I state here that at all times I have sought to behave - and believe that I have acted so - in respect of my duties on the National Council as both Party Treasurer and London Chairman in a competent, careful and most honest manner.

I also give notice to the owners and administrators of this site that they should not sit idly by when an honest working man, who earns his daily bread as a chartered accountant (where acting in good faith and with the utmost honesty is essential) is libelled.

We will have to see how this situation proceeds.

I very much recommend that other members of this forum stay outside of this issue - unless they wish to run some personal risk of being joined to a possible and expensive defamation case!

AJC

Englishman · 20-10-2007, 10:17 PM

I respect you honesty and you do sound beleivable,
but it looses respect with the heavy handed threat of law thrown in,
as this gives the impression that maybe the EDP are some sort of dictatorship.
This heavy handed behaviour towards our own doesn't give a good impression to the public.

Let this man say what he wants about you, let him have is freedom of speech, and if he is correct then its up to him to give the evidence backing his points made,
if you haven't behaved in this mannor then your honesty will prevail any way, it always does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine

Statement by Andrew Constantine

I have not sought to counter before any of the false and malicious comments made on this public forum and eleswhere about me by Alan England.

I have come to the conclusion, however, that as a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of England and Wales who is in professional employment that I cannot allow the various baseless and most serious allegations made by Alan England about me to lie unchallenged.

Along with other officers of my party, we have sought specialist legal advice from a leading firm of lawyers. A number of posts on this forum are under consideration by them.

In my professional life as a chartered accountant, my reputation for absolute honesty is of course the essential requisite for my employment.

I thought before that Alan England's untrue and unpleasant comments about me were best left unanswered, and should be ignored and treated with contempt.

However, Alan England now seems to have decided to mount a long running campaign against both my good reputation and that of fellow officers on the National Council of the English Democrats Party.

I do not wish for my keeping silent before in the face of these allegations to look as though there was a shred of truth in them.

So as to minimise any further damage to my reputation, I state here that at all times I have sought to behave - and believe that I have acted so - in respect of my duties on the National Council as both Party Treasurer and London Chairman in a competent, careful and most honest manner.

I also give notice to the owners and administrators of this site that they should not sit idly by when an honest working man, who earns his daily bread as a chartered accountant (where acting in good faith and with the utmost honesty is essential) is libelled.

We will have to see how this situation proceeds.

I very much recommend that other members of this forum stay outside of this issue - unless they wish to run some personal risk of being joined to a possible and expensive defamation case!

AJC

cassie · 21-10-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Constantine

Statement by Andrew Constantine

I have not sought to counter before any of the false and malicious comments made on this public forum and eleswhere about me by Alan England.

I have come to the conclusion, however, that as a Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of England and Wales who is in professional employment that I cannot allow the various baseless and most serious allegations made by Alan England about me to lie unchallenged.

Along with other officers of my party, we have sought specialist legal advice from a leading firm of lawyers. A number of posts on this forum are under consideration by them.

In my professional life as a chartered accountant, my reputation for absolute honesty is of course the essential requisite for my employment.

I thought before that Alan England's untrue and unpleasant comments about me were best left unanswered, and should be ignored and treated with contempt.

However, Alan England now seems to have decided to mount a long running campaign against both my good reputation and that of fellow officers on the National Council of the English Democrats Party.

I do not wish for my keeping silent before in the face of these allegations to look as though there was a shred of truth in them.

So as to minimise any further damage to my reputation, I state here that at all times I have sought to behave - and believe that I have acted so - in respect of my duties on the National Council as both Party Treasurer and London Chairman in a competent, careful and most honest manner.

I also give notice to the owners and administrators of this site that they should not sit idly by when an honest working man, who earns his daily bread as a chartered accountant (where acting in good faith and with the utmost honesty is essential) is libelled.

We will have to see how this situation proceeds.

I very much recommend that other members of this forum stay outside of this issue - unless they wish to run some personal risk of being joined to a possible and expensive defamation case!

AJC

One is not libelled if what is said or written is true, and I maintain that all I have said is true.

Allegations (ie unsubstantiated accusations) of libel are themselves defamatory.

I look forward to the impartial hearing denied to me by Andrew and his associates.

Hartlepool · 21-10-2007, 07:47 AM

Mr Constantine does spell it all out clearly.

I believe what he says.

I and many others have posted several times but there is no link between myself and them.

I will no longer post on EDP threads.

And if I upset Mr Constantine or any others on here I apologise for doing so.

cassie · 21-10-2007, 09:29 AM

First, I take full responsibility for my postings here.

Second, I do not retract my comments.

Third, Andrew Constantine uses general terms such as "various baseless and most serious allegations" and "untrue and unpleasant comments" etc. which, themselves, are defamatory unless substantiated. (I am surprised that his solicitors have not advised Andrew to avoid making such public allegations himself!)

Fourth, Andrew says he is going to challenge my assertions but by use of solicitors. Therefore it might be reasonably concluded that this is yet another attempt to shut down legitimate discussion ~ this time by the threat of legal action.

I prefer to deal in facts, if permitted to do so. Here are some of the relevant facts:

1. The EDP's published 'Manifesto & Constitution' can be seen and downloaded here in pdf format: http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/d...ifesto2007.pdf The Constitution itself is towards the end of the document from page 20 on.

2. These matters are set in the context of a registered political party, the English Democrats Party, which has as one of its recorded objectives [at Rule 2.1] "to gain sufficient electoral support to form the executive (government) of England". Indeed, Andrew has stood as a candidate for the EDP and at one time indicated that he was to do so again in next year's GLA elections. Therefore, there is a public interest.

3. Rule 10.6 of the EDP's Constitution requires the Treasurer's reports to the NC to "be in writing and must include details of the Party's bank accounts and income and expenditure". During the period 01 January to 31 July 2007 no such reports were made to the NC.

4. Rule 10.8 requires the Treasurer to prepare an annual budget "showing the projected income and expenditure for the Party" for agreement by the NC. No such action had been taken during the period 01 January to the time of my expulsion in August 2007.

5. Rule 10.3, requires that the financial accounts for 2006 should have been prepared before the 30 April 2007. However, no report of these accounts was presented to the NC in the period 01 May to 31 July 2007 to accord with Rule 10.6.

If the requirements listed at serials 3. to 5. above had been satisfied, it would be a simple matter to refer to the relevant entry in the EDP National Council's (NC's) minutes and to produce copies of the relevant reports as issued at the time. However, I was the EDP's National Secretary for most of the time and certainly a member of the NC until August 2007 during which I did not receive any such reports. If it is now contended that the relevant reports were issued, the question arises about why I was not supplied with a copy of the same?

Andrew claims to have acted in respect of his duties on the National Council as both Party Treasurer and London Chairman in a "competent, careful and most honest manner". Others are entitled to make their own judgement in the light of facts rather than mere assertion.

This is just a taster ~ I emphasise a taster ~ of the facts involved in this matter. Even so, I think there is sufficient here for the objective and impartial observer to form the opinion that the EDP and its systems of reporting are corrupt. Given the EDP's stated objectives, this is a matter of public interest, if not public concern.

mr.growbag · 21-10-2007, 09:41 AM

Returning to the original subject of this thread, lets look at a couple of recent election results.

Ellesmere Port and Neston Borough - Rossmore: Lab 504, C 325, English Democrats Party 60, Lib Dem 38. (May 2007 - Lab 845, C 601). Lab hold. Swing 1.2% C to Lab.

Wigan Borough - Wigan Central: C 1013, Lab 827, Community Action Party 262. (May 2007 - C 1406, Lab 1050, Lib Dem 300, Community Action Party 218, BNP 199). C hold. Swing 1.1% C to Lab.

In Ellesmere Port, I consider the EDP has done well for a new party standing for the first time, and our team needs congratulating there for its efforts.
In Wigan, I see the BNP never even fielded a candidate this time ......so perhaps things are not quite as rosey for the BNP nationally as they make out.

I do agree that perhaps the EDP does need to change in some ways in order to win over voters. I see a need to get a broader message across, that would appeal to a greater percentage of voters from all parties.
In some sections we are in danger of being perceived as new-UKIPpers (recent postings on St. Georges Committee forum). Though I fully applaud UKIP's new immigration policy (and believe a similar line should be adopted by the EDP), there are many ordinary people that view UKIP as a Thatcherite organisation and therefore would never give it their support.

Though I can see the benefits in European election of an Anti-EU Alliance of EDP, UKIP and Liberal, domestically we need to break any moulds that align us to any sections of the political spectrum and create a strong English nationalist angle of our own for a new England.

As for an alliance or co-operation with the BNP and EFP, I believe a majority of the current EDP membership would leave if talks of co-operation with such extremists was to happen. Both parties are white racial nationalist parties, with very iffy connections amongst their hierarchy to white supremicist organisations. English nationalism and white supremecy are poles apart.
There are some decent people in both the BNP and EIP, not all are thugs and white supremicists. It is these people we need to convert to the EDP. We do have policies to do this, and a new broader approach will bring these people to us and offer the voters a non-extremist English nationalist voice.

Yes changes are needed, and I am sure these changes will come.The debate and motion on 'Political Correctness' at the recent conference shows changes are on the way. Remember, we are still a relatively new party. But any changes we do make have to result in a political party that appeals to all sections of the English community and not just some. Aligning ourselves with the BNP and EFP and being regarding as new UKIPpers I feel is not a change for the better.

Englishman · 21-10-2007, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.growbag

so perhaps things are not quite as rosey for the BNP nationally as they make out.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - "Not all results will go the BNP way all over the nation obviously, Ive never said that they would, but on a whole the BNP have 50+ Councillors, which if were EDP Councillors or UKIP you would be congratulating them on their great success, yes? "

I do agree that perhaps the EDP does need to change in some ways in order to win over voters. I see a need to get a broader message across, that would appeal to a greater percentage of voters from all parties.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - "I dissagree, as this is exactly what they are trying to do at the minute, they are trying an all inclusive English nationalism, and on a whole it isn't working."

Though I can see the benefits in European election of an Anti-EU Alliance of EDP, UKIP and Liberal, domestically we need to break any moulds that align us to any sections of the political spectrum and create a strong English nationalist angle of our own for a new England.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - "ALL nationalist parties need to work together. The EDP can make themselves unique by fighting for the ethnic English first and foremost and for independence, this would break moulds that align you from any sections of the politcal spectrum, but I do wonder what the problem would be to be aligned with the biggest nationalsit party ever - the BNP? How would this loose you votes?????"

As for an alliance or co-operation with the BNP and EFP, I believe a majority of the current EDP membership would leave if talks of co-operation with such extremists was to happen.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - " Explain how the BNP are extremists?
and so what if some PC members of the EDP would leave, this would show who's side these people are on and just how PC they are. Plus you would also gain new members by making that firmer stance, it can't be as bad as it is now could it? i.e. being beaten by the Monster Raving Looney party!!???"

Both parties are white racial nationalist parties, with very iffy connections amongst their hierarchy to white supremicist organisations. English nationalism and white supremecy are poles apart.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - " If the BNP and EFP are white racial nationalists then why are they against Polish immigration and any other Eastern Europeon immigration?
To fight for the indigenous English, you can only fight for white people as the indigenous English can be no other than white, is it so wrong to defend your indigenous ethnic people? is this really white supremecy??? Your being very PC in making that acusation.
And so what about nations of black people who fight for their people? are they black supremists?
And all those black organisations fighting for blacks out there existing in England, do you view them as extremists? "

There are some decent people in both the BNP and EIP, not all are thugs and white supremicists. It is these people we need to convert to the EDP. We do have policies to do this, and a new broader approach will bring these people to us and offer the voters a non-extremist English nationalist voice.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - " Again It isn't extremism to fight for and defend your ethnic people who just happen to be white people.
What you call a non extremist English nationalist voice is what is failing for the EDP, it is what some would call plastic patriotism, right at a time when people want a firm voice and a firm nationalsim to fight against the fimr antio nationalsim that is kilihg the English and England off right now, so trying to defend England and the English with a PC soflty softly aproach will not do much good at all, sadly. Don't get me wrong I wish it would, but Ive tried it and I know it will not work quick enough to save England and the ethnic English right now."

Yes changes are needed, and I am sure these changes will come.The debate and motion on 'Political Correctness' at the recent conference shows changes are on the way. Remember, we are still a relatively new party. But any changes we do make have to result in a political party that appeals to all sections of the English community and not just some. Aligning ourselves with the BNP and EFP and being regarding as new UKIPpers I feel is not a change for the better.

ENGLISHMAN SAYS - "If canges are on their way concerning PC with the EDP, then I presume you will not be fielding non English candidates any more, as this is not what the English public want, as they are sick and tired of their English indentity being watered down!
Immigrants make up aprox 8% of the whole of Britian, so if you align yourself with the large majorety of ethnic English then you will go far,
if you try and do English nationalist politics from an all inclusive angle which defeats the total point of nationalism, then you wil go nowhere."

__________________________________________________ _______________

Englishman · 21-10-2007, 10:42 AM

Ya see!, this is what efect the EDP have when they throw their weight about with the law towards their own.

This is not a good impression at all.

If you aint said anything wrong and have been truthfull on here Hartlepool then stand by your words, be a man,
don't hide from any form of dictatorship, as this is what Labour usualy do with us and we need to say enough is enough on that one!

I'm dissappointed with the EDP's heavy handedness here.

Couldn't you just ask Cassie to just give us all the evidence to back up what he says?
if he can't then people know its just his words against yours, which you should give people credit for to use their own brains and beleive what they will, and maybe you can prove to the public that Cassie is wrong also?

The actions you are taking are making you look guilty, its as if you want to shut him up quickly, which doesn't look good and some people may see this as guilt on your behalf.

Look at it this way, the BNP are being called white supremists and extremists on here by EDP members, do you see them throwing the weight of the law about?
They could do if they wanted to, as they have recently beaten acusations in court of a very similar nature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

Mr Constantine does spell it all out clearly.

I believe what he says.

I and many others have posted several times but there is no link between myself and them.

I will no longer post on EDP threads.

And if I upset Mr Constantine or any others on here I apologise for doing so.

21-10-2007, 09:29 AM	#17 (permalink)
cassie Uber Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,852	First, I take full responsibility for my postings here. Second, I do not retract my comments. Third, Andrew Constantine uses general terms such as *"various baseless and most serious allegations"* and *"untrue and unpleasant comments"* etc. which, themselves, are defamatory unless substantiated. (I am surprised that his solicitors have not advised Andrew to avoid making such public allegations himself!) Fourth, Andrew says he is going to challenge my assertions but by use of solicitors. Therefore it might be reasonably concluded that this is yet another attempt to shut down legitimate discussion ~ this time by the threat of legal action. I prefer to deal in facts, if permitted to do so. Here are some of the relevant facts: 1. The EDP's published 'Manifesto & Constitution' can be seen and downloaded here in pdf format: http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/d...ifesto2007.pdf The Constitution itself is towards the end of the document from page 20 on. 2. These matters are set in the context of a registered political party, the English Democrats Party, which has as one of its recorded objectives [at Rule 2.1] *"to gain sufficient electoral support to form the executive (government) of England". Indeed, Andrew has stood as a candidate for the EDP and at one time indicated that he was to do so again in next year's GLA elections. Therefore, there is a public interest. 3. Rule 10.6 of the EDP's Constitution requires the Treasurer's reports to the NC to "be in writing and must include details of the Party's bank accounts and income and expenditure".* During the period 01 January to 31 July 2007 no such reports were made to the NC. 4. Rule 10.8 requires the Treasurer to prepare an annual budget *"showing the projected income and expenditure for the Party"* for agreement by the NC. No such action had been taken during the period 01 January to the time of my expulsion in August 2007. 5. Rule 10.3, requires that the financial accounts for 2006 should have been prepared before the 30 April 2007. However, no report of these accounts was presented to the NC in the period 01 May to 31 July 2007 to accord with Rule 10.6. If the requirements listed at serials 3. to 5. above had been satisfied, it would be a simple matter to refer to the relevant entry in the EDP National Council's (NC's) minutes and to produce copies of the relevant reports as issued at the time. However, I was the EDP's National Secretary for most of the time and certainly a member of the NC until August 2007 during which I did not receive any such reports. If it is now contended that the relevant reports were issued, the question arises about why I was not supplied with a copy of the same? Andrew claims to have acted in respect of his duties on the National Council as both Party Treasurer and London Chairman in a *"competent, careful and most honest manner".* Others are entitled to make their own judgement in the light of facts rather than mere assertion. This is just a taster ~ I emphasise a taster ~ of the facts involved in this matter. Even so, I think there is sufficient here for the objective and impartial observer to form the opinion that the EDP and its systems of reporting are corrupt. Given the EDP's stated objectives, this is a matter of public interest, if not public concern. Last edited by cassie; 21-10-2007 at 09:32 AM.

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21-10-2007, 07:47 AM	#16 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,785 Party: Free England Party	Mr Constantine does spell it all out clearly. I believe what he says. I and many others have posted several times but there is no link between myself and them. I will no longer post on EDP threads. And if I upset Mr Constantine or any others on here I apologise for doing so.

21-10-2007, 09:41 AM	#18 (permalink)
mr.growbag Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Glorious Devon Posts: 48	Returning to the original subject of this thread, lets look at a couple of recent election results. Ellesmere Port and Neston Borough - Rossmore: Lab 504, C 325, English Democrats Party 60, Lib Dem 38. (May 2007 - Lab 845, C 601). Lab hold. Swing 1.2% C to Lab. Wigan Borough - Wigan Central: C 1013, Lab 827, Community Action Party 262. (May 2007 - C 1406, Lab 1050, Lib Dem 300, Community Action Party 218, BNP 199). C hold. Swing 1.1% C to Lab. In Ellesmere Port, I consider the EDP has done well for a new party standing for the first time, and our team needs congratulating there for its efforts. In Wigan, I see the BNP never even fielded a candidate this time ......so perhaps things are not quite as rosey for the BNP nationally as they make out. I do agree that perhaps the EDP does need to change in some ways in order to win over voters. I see a need to get a broader message across, that would appeal to a greater percentage of voters from all parties. In some sections we are in danger of being perceived as new-UKIPpers (recent postings on St. Georges Committee forum). Though I fully applaud UKIP's new immigration policy (and believe a similar line should be adopted by the EDP), there are many ordinary people that view UKIP as a Thatcherite organisation and therefore would never give it their support. Though I can see the benefits in European election of an Anti-EU Alliance of EDP, UKIP and Liberal, domestically we need to break any moulds that align us to any sections of the political spectrum and create a strong English nationalist angle of our own for a new England. As for an alliance or co-operation with the BNP and EFP, I believe a majority of the current EDP membership would leave if talks of co-operation with such extremists was to happen. Both parties are white racial nationalist parties, with very iffy connections amongst their hierarchy to white supremicist organisations. English nationalism and white supremecy are poles apart. There are some decent people in both the BNP and EIP, not all are thugs and white supremicists. It is these people we need to convert to the EDP. We do have policies to do this, and a new broader approach will bring these people to us and offer the voters a non-extremist English nationalist voice. Yes changes are needed, and I am sure these changes will come.The debate and motion on 'Political Correctness' at the recent conference shows changes are on the way. Remember, we are still a relatively new party. But any changes we do make have to result in a political party that appeals to all sections of the English community and not just some. Aligning ourselves with the BNP and EFP and being regarding as new UKIPpers I feel is not a change for the better.