Will some one get rid of Ken Clark today. What an idiot he is.
Eurozone Crisis: Tories Call For EU Referendum - Yahoo!
I used to quite like Ken Clark. It must be age that has made him such a fool.
Hush Puppy man has always been a Euro federalist.Originally Posted by Chip
I like Guido's use of Tucker's Law to describe him. If you don't know what it is, click on the link at the beginning of the article.
Ken Clarke, Europe and a Case of Tucker’s Law - Guy Fawkes' blog
Thank you for that link. Makes interesting reading. God help us all.
That "someone" has to be the PM.
But do you get much comfort from his actions to date (as opposed to his rhetoric) on the EU??
Do the Tories actually know what they want to do in Europe? The same old arguments are coming out as they had last time they were in power, with Clarke being involved back then as well. Why Cameron didn't get rid of him, God only knows - maybe he thought that he would be easier to handle if on the front benches. It was fairly obvious that KC would take this stance - he always has, he always will.
This whole issue looks to be unravelling fast. My view is now is not the time to rock the boat over the EU. We need to see them sort out their problems with Italy, Greece etc. We also have our own big problems too.
On a referendum, I think a really good move would be for Cameron to promise an in/out referendum on Europe in 2015 if the Tories get the votes to form a government on their own.
Personally, think that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to sell a 2015 referendum to the country. He has once before said that we would have a referendum and look what he did as soon as he got into power!! Cameron is a fool for not sorting this out. He should have said this is the direction we are going, you're either on the bus or not. As it is, the old divisions are there, and just make the Tories look idiotic over Europe. At the last Euro elections, I wrote to my Tory MP saying that I found the EU Tories impossible to vote for as they had no policies. Their flier, which popped through the door, had 4 points. 1 was a referendum (!) and the other 3 were how bad Brown was doing domestically. Well, I wasn't too naive to think that we would get a referendum and in all honesty that is decided domestically rather than at Brussels.
The only thing I hear from the Tories is clap trap about wresting power back from Brussels and being in "it" to change "it". Well the former might be valid as we are nett contributors. The latter is just arrogant or possibly more to do with sound bites than real policy. Sure if we are in it, then we should be able to influence in some direction, but the politicians seem to think that we can mould it to suit us rather than for the greater good.
We will never fit into the EU. They are far too socialist.
That's because the man that runs it, Barroso, (and probably many others) is a communist and a Maoist at that. He may have left the party, but only to join a mainstream party to get into a position of power to implement his Maoist plans.
"Barroso's political activity began in his late teens, during the Estado Novo regime in Portugal, before the Carnation Revolution of 25 April 1974. In his college days, he was one of the leaders of the underground Maoist MRPP (Reorganising Movement of the Proletariat Party, later PCTP/MRPP, Communist Party of the Portuguese Workers/Revolutionary Movement of the Portuguese Proletariat). In an interview with the newspaper Expresso, he said that he had joined MRPP to fight the only other student body movement, also underground, which was controlled by the Portuguese Communist Party. Despite this justification there is a very famous political 1976 interview recorded by the Portuguese state-run television channel — RTP, in which Barroso, as a politically minded student during the post-Carnation Revolution turmoil known as PREC, criticises the bourgeois education system which "throws students against workers and workers against students", showing clear left-wing and Maoist inclinations.[3]"
José Manuel Barroso - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If anyone has trouble understanding the EU, they would do well to read the following link.
The New Feudalists - EU Communitarian Agenda
Easy to say, virtually impossible to do in practice. Look at what happened to John Major. Many tory euro sceptics are fanatics and would rather bring down the government than have their unrealistic demands ignored. But personally I think DC would be crazy to give in to them now.
Agreed.The only thing I hear from the Tories is clap trap about wresting power back from Brussels and being in "it" to change "it". Well the former might be valid as we are nett contributors. The latter is just arrogant or possibly more to do with sound bites than real policy. Sure if we are in it, then we should be able to influence in some direction, but the politicians seem to think that we can mould it to suit us rather than for the greater good.
We will never fit into the EU. They are far too socialist.
I think we should exit but not until all the economic problems have calmed down. Hence why I think 2015 is a good time to go for it. What the tory euro sceptics should focus on is on obtaining an in-out referendum on the EU and if the electorate won't buy what they are selling, then tough. They have their answer. They say they believe in democracy so that should be it.
If the electorate go for it, we all have to accept the consequences and hope the good outweighs the bad.
True, but......
Cameron is leader of the Tory party. He is not the Tory party. Surely he should have been able as leader to form a consensus that all the Tories could have followed, rather than his own view (or is that being unfair?). Sure there would have had to have been compromises from both sides, but surely some sort of common direction would have been better than the tug-of-war we have at the moment? As you say, Major had this problem, and that is why I say Cameron has been foolish over this. It was bound to come up yet again, but he has not found that common path that the Tories could go down.
As for 2015 - understood. I agree that it would be better to look at things when all has calmed down a bit. I am not sure that we will ever be given a referendum on an in-out basis, as the politicians know the mood in this country. In all honesty, I don't think we really want an "in-out" question which leaves no room for anything else. I would give a 3rd option. "EU - yes", "EU - no" and "EEC". I think that there would be a significant proportion of people who would like an EEC and I think that I would probably on the face of it, vote yes to that.
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