In Europe but not ruled by Europe

Bluemerle · 18-10-2006, 04:09 PM

I wrote to Michael Howard before the last election telling him the "In Europe not ruled by Europe" mantra was one of the most stupid things the Tory Party had said.

One Londoner · 18-10-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I don't think they could get away with promising a referendum on our sole membership, then not giving it. There is no excuse they could come up with.

They promised Paddy Ashdown a referendum on proportional representation in 1997 (manifesto pledge IIRC) and cheerfully reneged on it when they secured a big majority and didn't need the Lib Dems any more. They didn't even bother with an excuse, just booted it into the long grass. It will be interesting to see if the idea is magically revived for the next election, and to see if the Lib Dems fall for it again.

mkpdavies · 18-10-2006, 05:12 PM

I know, they can hardly be trusted with anything. If they promised something as big as a referedum on EU membership and then reneged, then we would have the right to riot.

michael mcgough · 18-10-2006, 09:29 PM

"then we would have the right to riot."

I fear soon it might be right to riot.

Britannist · 18-10-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Londoner

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

I don't think they could get away with promising a referendum on our sole membership, then not giving it. There is no excuse they could come up with.

They promised Paddy Ashdown a referendum on proportional representation in 1997 (manifesto pledge IIRC) and cheerfully reneged on it when they secured a big majority and didn't need the Lib Dems any more. They didn't even bother with an excuse, just booted it into the long grass. It will be interesting to see if the idea is magically revived for the next election, and to see if the Lib Dems fall for it again.

The pro-EU wing of the Labour Party and the europhile Liberal 'Democrats' face a paradox - they back proportional representation (PR) in theory, but are not quite as enthusiastic about it when it throws up results such as at the last EU Election when anti-EU UKIP scored stunning successes in winning lots of seats in Brussels and also two seats (for UKIP/now One London) on the London Assembly.

No wonder Campbell's Fiberal Dims have gone quiet on PR since 2004! PR voting for General Elections could see UKIP push them out of 'third place' in the ranking in the House of Commons.

The euro-fanatical Liberal Dims are now just as worried about PR as they are about the first-past-the-post voting system used for General Elections. They've gone on about PR for about 100 years - but, thanks to UKIP, could end up being relegated in British national politics and even splitting and disintegrating into smaller factions.

The Liberal Dims are in a quandary over PR and it serves them right :twisted: .

eublues · 18-10-2006, 10:02 PM

I dare say that when proportional representation does arrive, as favoured by the EU, for local and national elections, they will devise some cunning way to largely discount votes for minor ('extremist') parties compared to the reasonably fair system operating currently for EU elections which got UKIP 12 seats.

18-10-2006, 05:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,055 Party: Libertarian Party	I know, they can hardly be trusted with anything. If they promised something as big as a referedum on EU membership and then reneged, then we would have the right to riot. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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18-10-2006, 04:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	I wrote to Michael Howard before the last election telling him the "In Europe not ruled by Europe" mantra was one of the most stupid things the Tory Party had said.

18-10-2006, 09:29 PM	#14 (permalink)
michael mcgough Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Essex Posts: 945	"then we would have the right to riot." I fear soon it might be right to riot.

18-10-2006, 10:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,122	I dare say that when proportional representation does arrive, as favoured by the EU, for local and national elections, they will devise some cunning way to largely discount votes for minor ('extremist') parties compared to the reasonably fair system operating currently for EU elections which got UKIP 12 seats.