Next Stop BNP Central...

Alex McKee · 26-03-2008, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frith

They mean well but what they really want is for everyone aged under 25 to take power and lead the world to glory because, yea, they have overcome Mummy and Daddy's foul ideologies and are marching to eternal oneness in global brotherhood. Remember when we were also like this? In our various ways. Each generation thought they had stumbled on a "eureka" moment for mankind. Nuts. Unfortunately there is no such thing. Providence forgot to add it when we were made. Fortunately no one let us anywhere near the car keys until we could drive and even then most of our leaders crashed into trees they didn't think would be there.

Who are you referring to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frith

Alex's words are good ones to build on, though. And he hasn't omitted the fact that liberty and authority go together because true liberty is a pipe dream and responsible government is the only way any individual or group can make anything work, even for a short while. To make things work in the long term, you need commitment and discipline. That's where the problem comes in.

Anarchists believe that the government is the problem. Libertarians believe the government is a problem when it oversteps it's remit - to protect it's citizens and provide a legal framework within which all should be free to do as they like, so long as they don't compromise the rights of others to do as they wish.

Frith · 26-03-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex McKee

Who are you referring to?

Anarchists believe that the government is the problem. Libertarians believe the government is a problem when it oversteps it's remit - to protect it's citizens and provide a legal framework within which all should be free to do as they like, so long as they don't compromise the rights of others to do as they wish.

I'm joking. I'm a very jocular personage and not at all a miserable critical old bag. I understand how things are to people who believe that you can get away with doing what you like with a minimum of control, but I also know from experience that this only works in small local communities where everybody has the same idea of freedom.

Invariably this kind of anarchism leads to the other kind we are more familiar with where heads roll and everything is on fire.

Alex McKee · 26-03-2008, 06:04 PM

I was arguing against Anarchism, and for a limited government.

a swansong 4 europe · 26-03-2008, 08:44 PM

I can understand the need to be aware of the prospect B*P supporters wanting to dominate the debate on these pages, but then as this is not specifically a UKIP site, why does that matter?

This is because, I am guessing, that the two parties are seen either within their own ranks, or by the mdeia/general public, as being contenders for the same crown, and as such, there is bound to exist to some extent, an element of good old jealosy between the two (or more, if you include the likes of the EDP) groups.

I can't help but feel that there are those within both parties that would be more horrified if there were evidence of mass infiltration or cross-affiliation with Respect or the Greens, or any other leftist leaning party.

I can't help but feel that this is all a great fuss over nothing, and if there are those in either party that feel that the existance of sympathisers for one or the other is the end of civilisation, than god help this country, as it will deserve everything that it gets.

Apart from that, great forum, nice debates, and lively topics.

Hunter · 26-03-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe

I can understand the need to be aware of the prospect B*P supporters wanting to dominate the debate on these pages, but then as this is not specifically a UKIP site, why does that matter?

This is because, I am guessing, that the two parties are seen either within their own ranks, or by the mdeia/general public, as being contenders for the same crown, and as such, there is bound to exist to some extent, an element of good old jealosy between the two (or more, if you include the likes of the EDP) groups.

I can't help but feel that there are those within both parties that would be more horrified if there were evidence of mass infiltration or cross-affiliation with Respect or the Greens, or any other leftist leaning party.

I can't help but feel that this is all a great fuss over nothing, and if there are those in either party that feel that the existance of sympathisers for one or the other is the end of civilisation, than god help this country, as it will deserve everything that it gets.

Apart from that, great forum, nice debates, and lively topics.

Ever heard the old saying that opposites attract and likes repel? You may be surprised to know that the BNP and UKIP have a great deal in common. It's the 'little' differences that tend to cause the larger splits.

Alex McKee · 26-03-2008, 11:47 PM

It's not that we mind their bigoted views being inserted into the debates. We don't. There are plenty of people here that will rip such arguments into pieces. However, this being done, they post a new thread with the exact same debate.

So we gave them a section. They overspilled and continued to post stuff absolutely everywhere. Genuine, long-standing members of this forum did not actually participate in such threads.

It's a form of spam, basically, perpetrated by dedicated agents. We know they're dedicated because they keep coming back under different guises. But always turns out to be the same bunch of people.

Alex

Hunter · 26-03-2008, 11:57 PM

Bigoted?

Please explain.

Alex McKee · 26-03-2008, 11:58 PM

Only bigoted in my opinion, of course.

Hunter · 27-03-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex McKee

Only bigoted in my opinion, of course.

Naturally.

Frith · 27-03-2008, 06:49 AM

I think Alex means these:

Apparently some enterprising programmer is thinking of ways to "cave" them.

26-03-2008, 06:04 PM	#33 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	I was arguing against Anarchism, and for a limited government. __________________ Anything I post on this web forum is my personal opinion only. Users on Ignore list: None.

26-03-2008, 11:47 PM	#36 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	It's not that we mind their bigoted views being inserted into the debates. We don't. There are plenty of people here that will rip such arguments into pieces. However, this being done, they post a new thread with the exact same debate. So we gave them a section. They overspilled and continued to post stuff absolutely everywhere. Genuine, long-standing members of this forum did not actually participate in such threads. It's a form of spam, basically, perpetrated by dedicated agents. We know they're dedicated because they keep coming back under different guises. But always turns out to be the same bunch of people. Alex __________________ Anything I post on this web forum is my personal opinion only. Users on Ignore list: None.

26-03-2008, 11:58 PM	#38 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	Only bigoted in my opinion, of course. __________________ Anything I post on this web forum is my personal opinion only. Users on Ignore list: None.

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26-03-2008, 08:44 PM	#34 (permalink)
a swansong 4 europe Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 411	I can understand the need to be aware of the prospect B*P supporters wanting to dominate the debate on these pages, but then as this is not specifically a UKIP site, why does that matter? This is because, I am guessing, that the two parties are seen either within their own ranks, or by the mdeia/general public, as being contenders for the same crown, and as such, there is bound to exist to some extent, an element of good old jealosy between the two (or more, if you include the likes of the EDP) groups. I can't help but feel that there are those within both parties that would be more horrified if there were evidence of mass infiltration or cross-affiliation with Respect or the Greens, or any other leftist leaning party. I can't help but feel that this is all a great fuss over nothing, and if there are those in either party that feel that the existance of sympathisers for one or the other is the end of civilisation, than god help this country, as it will deserve everything that it gets. Apart from that, great forum, nice debates, and lively topics.

26-03-2008, 11:57 PM	#37 (permalink)
Hunter Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 812	Bigoted? Please explain.

27-03-2008, 06:49 AM	#40 (permalink)
Frith Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 660	I think Alex means these: Apparently some enterprising programmer is thinking of ways to "cave" them.